Off Topic UK / EU Future

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oldfrenchhorn said:
Having read through the comments today, I guess that SH will not be voting for the Tories in future as he believes the PM and the majority of her cabinet are dodgy useless operators that you wouldn't buy a second hand car from. Maybe when the extremists break away and join up with UKIP he will find himself a political home as there doesn't seem to be anywhere else for him to go to.
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No, UKIP are as ineffective as the Lib Dems and Greens, very little support in the UK.

May needs to see the error of her ways or a more competent figure, hopefully from the successful Brexit side, will guide the UK to a sensible negotiated outcome.
Having slagged off May for the last couple of years you are now hanging your hat on a political figure rapidly losing her influence. Do you always back the wrong horse?
 
superhorns said:
No, UKIP are as ineffective as the Lib Dems and Greens, very little support in the UK.

May needs to see the error of her ways or a more competent figure, hopefully from the successful Brexit side, will guide the UK to a sensible negotiated outcome.
Having slagged off May for the last couple of years you are now hanging your hat on a political figure rapidly losing her influence. Do you always back the wrong horse?
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What you have been advocating is a break up of the Tory party. Do you really think that the majority of MPs will back one of the right wing plotters? I cannot see it as an outside observer, but then you seem to think that a leadership election would be just a polite exchange of views, and she would potter off to write her memoirs. She will not go willingly, so a fight for all to see would be the result of a challenge.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
What you have been advocating is a break up of the Tory party. Do you really think that the majority of MPs will back one of the right wing plotters? I cannot see it as an outside observer, but then you seem to think that a leadership election would be just a polite exchange of views, and she would potter off to write her memoirs. She will not go willingly, so a fight for all to see would be the result of a challenge.
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May has already risked extra division within the Tory Party by her skullduggery behind the backs of most of her cabinet. The overwhelming number of Tory, and Labour for that matter, have supported the progress of Brexit. There are many more than the usual Brexiteers unhappy with her feeble attempt to appease the EU.

Her proposal, adopted by yourself, is dead in the water. Let there be a leadership contest as she has now lost valuable trust and confidence in her judgement by her MPs. Not as bad as Labour but quite damaging all the same.
 
Her proposal has not been adopted by me because I see all the holes that exist in something that is not acceptable to anyone. How do you know what has been going on? Relying on the words of those who plot to remove her? You forget that you are aligning yourself with a small number of MPs. Can they alone bring her down? Of course they cannot, the numbers do not add up. It is outside the power of Labour to bring about a leadership election for the Tories, therefore it is an internal party affair. You say that she needs to see the errors of her ways. That is your opinion not supported by facts. The majority of her cabinet have signed up to her white paper.
 
Getting off the subject a little (or maybe not) it has been noted that 17 of the French squad which won the World Cup are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. It follows then, without fear of contradiction, that for England to ever win the World Cup again we need more immigration - this is now statistically proved. Particularly immigrants from football playing countries such as former French colonies eg. Algeria and Morocco.
 
colognehornet said:
Getting off the subject a little (or maybe not) it has been noted that 17 of the French squad which won the World Cup are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. It follows then, without fear of contradiction, that for England to ever win the World Cup again we need more immigration - this is now statistically proved. Particularly immigrants from football playing countries such as former French colonies eg. Algeria and Morocco.
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Have you seen Amrabat's final ball?
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Her proposal has not been adopted by me because I see all the holes that exist in something that is not acceptable to anyone. How do you know what has been going on? Relying on the words of those who plot to remove her? You forget that you are aligning yourself with a small number of MPs. Can they alone bring her down? Of course they cannot, the numbers do not add up. It is outside the power of Labour to bring about a leadership election for the Tories, therefore it is an internal party affair. You say that she needs to see the errors of her ways. That is your opinion not supported by facts. The majority of her cabinet have signed up to her white paper.
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The Labour Party will surely vote against the government in next week's amendment by RM to the Trade and Customs Bill. There are enough dissatisfied Tory MPs to join Labour and the Ulster Unionists to defeat the government. She will then realise she has miscalculated. I align myself with those that voted for Brexit and expect it to happen. Cowardly the EU have remained silent for once relying on the Tories to clear up this polished turd of a mess.
 
OFH, with your long record of failed predictions during the course of a proper Brexit TM would not be pleased you are now backing her vision.
 
colognehornet said:
It has of course been statistically proven that 42.6% of Watford Predictions Leagues over a 7 year period have been won by Green Party members (though not lately I admit) which must prove something <laugh>
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Must be a first in the UK, the Greens winning something. :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
SH - do you agree Labour are less in favour overall of a hard brexit than soft? So a Labour government would scupper your dreams?
Second do you agree that the JRM/Boris wing of the party does not have enough support to form a leadership battle - let alone unite a Tory government?
If so what are you hoping for?
Just that everything goes so wrong that we exit with no deal because nobody could do a "good" deal?
 
Leo said:
SH - do you agree Labour are less in favour overall of a hard brexit than soft? So a Labour government would scupper your dreams?
Second do you agree that the JRM/Boris wing of the party does not have enough support to form a leadership battle - let alone unite a Tory government?
If so what are you hoping for?
Just that everything goes so wrong that we exit with no deal because nobody could do a "good" deal?
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Yes
Yes
Not sure will find out this week.
I'm hoping for a Tory government to carry out the expressed wish of the people. Namely to end free movement, make the UK parliament sovereign, ability to do free trade deals with the rest of the world and stop sending vast sums to Brussels. Remainer May has prove duplicitous so has ruled herself out of leading the Brexit negotiations. Hopefully a proper Brexiteer with take over the party leadership and become PM. I firmly believe the UK will not get a 'good deal' until the EU takes the prospect of leaving without deal seriously.

Next question?
 
superhorns said:
Yes
Yes
Not sure will find out this week.
I'm hoping for a Tory government to carry out the expressed wish of the people. Namely to end free movement, make the UK parliament sovereign, ability to do free trade deals with the rest of the world and stop sending vast sums to Brussels. Remainer May has prove duplicitous so has ruled herself out of leading the Brexit negotiations. Hopefully a proper Brexiteer with take over the party leadership and become PM. I firmly believe the UK will not get a 'good deal' until the EU takes the prospect of leaving without deal seriously.

Next question?
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Do you agree that the referendum question did not specify any of the things you mention above but was a simple do we remain in or leave the EU?
Do you agree Norway is not in the EU?
 
Leo said:
Do you agree that the referendum question did not specify any of the things you mention above but was a simple do we remain in or leave the EU?
Do you agree Norway is not in the EU?
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The question asked in the referendum was similar to the previous one asked in 1975. It proved a decisive answer then and it should do so now. Whatever the terms the UK must leave the EU.

Those things I mentioned were clear aims of the organisations and leading politicians on the leave side. They were also the main reasons given by voters who were canvassed later.

Norway is not a member of the EU but is a member of the EEA, but of course you knew that already.
 
Big difference between 1975 and now. 67% voted to stay in, a very clear result. The latest referendum showed no clear mandate, with the result that MPs now have to show some leadership and do what is right for the country, not follow some narrow dogma. The problem this has created has effectively brought parliament to gridlock, and to wish to change leadership is little more than wishful thinking. The only solution I can see at present is to send a request to the EU for the talks to be suspended for a year or so until a proper policy is brought forward. If at the end of that period there is still no acceptable policy that all MPs will sign up to, then a further request to withdraw Article 50 be sent.
 
superhorns said:
The question asked in the referendum was similar to the previous one asked in 1975. It proved a decisive answer then and it should do so now. Whatever the terms the UK must leave the EU.

Those things I mentioned were clear aims of the organisations and leading politicians on the leave side. They were also the main reasons given by voters who were canvassed later.

Norway is not a member of the EU but is a member of the EEA, but of course you knew that already.
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So you do not deny the question was simple in or out and that Norway is out so you cannot deny it is a viable solution for out.
Just because you favour the complete break option does not mean all brexiters did - so alternatives to your views are permissable.
As OFH says the 1975 referendum gave a decisive result and did not divide the country. Even you cannot say the same about the 2016 one.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Big difference between 1975 and now. 67% voted to stay in, a very clear result. The latest referendum showed no clear mandate, with the result that MPs now have to show some leadership and do what is right for the country, not follow some narrow dogma. The problem this has created has effectively brought parliament to gridlock, and to wish to change leadership is little more than wishful thinking. The only solution I can see at present is to send a request to the EU for the talks to be suspended for a year or so until a proper policy is brought forward. If at the end of that period there is still no acceptable policy that all MPs will sign up to, then a further request to withdraw Article 50 be sent.
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Total wishful thinking.

The rules in both referendum stated a majority is a majority, you cannot re-write the rules just because you did not like the result. Parliament set out the rules for the referendum and the result must be respected. Remainers can come up will any number of ruses to keep us in the EU, sorry guys you will be disappointed.
 
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