Off Topic UK / EU Future

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oldfrenchhorn said:
"17.4 million of all ages voted to free the UK from the straightjacket of the EU".

Despite being asked yesterday three or four times how SH felt he was having his personal liberty curtailed by EU regulations, he didn't come up with a single answer. Today he is just repeating another soundbite.
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The reason he, and thousands like him, will never answer that simple and direct question, is because they can’t give tangible examples of any EU regulations or laws that actually impinge negatively upon their existence.

It’s far easier to talk in soundbites and chuck around nonsense about a supposed loss of Sovereignty. That very same Parliamentary Sovereignty, that when first called into action after the vote, was so disgracefully assaulted by the right wing rags when it’d ruled on the Gina Miller case. We want a Britain ruled by Britain........but only when the ‘democratic’ decisions suit our agenda. It’s laughable in its complete hypocrisy.
 
colognehornet said:
This is a rather evasive way of saying that you don't know of any areas where the EU. has forced laws on the UK. which have been detremental.
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No it means I don't want to waste time looking. I'm more concerned with preventing future domination by external forces.
 
superhorns said:
My values are just as high today, I'm just much better on concentrating on what actually works. Those running around London with silly masks on achieve absolutely nothing.
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People gave their lives for our freedoms today... and continue to do so around the world....

You clearly only care for yourself and your interests... that is where we differ....
 
yorkshirehornet said:
Sounds like Project Paranoia to me.....

You'd better watch out on the shabby trade deals post Brexit then... Trump etc
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This is when Britannia opens her legs for the rest of the World to jump in whilst mumbling something about sovereignty. These people, who want to turn Britain into a bargain basement society which is 'attractive for vulture like investment', who would steamroll over all those nasty workers and citizens rights which emanate from Brussels should not be allowed to wear the mantle of 'patriotism' whilst doing so. We had this in the past when Thatcher made a big point of national pride yet raped British industry and sold it to the highest foreign investors at the same time.
 
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superhorns said:
No it means I don't want to waste time looking. I'm more concerned with preventing future domination by external forces.
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The mere fact that you admit that you’d have to go hunting for a single example, makes a complete mockery of your claim that our sovereignty is somehow impinged upon to a level that Joe Bloggs can somehow now celebrate his ‘freedom’.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Just to go back to my young French friend who I have known since he was a 10 year old, he went to Uni to study science, and during the holiday periods he worked at Euro Disney to earn some spending money. He was in one of the information centres, so met people from all over the world. He has travelled around Europe since, and I would say he has a well rounded view of life. I think that cologne used a key word in one of his posts, pragmatic. Yes, let's take life as it comes. To want to tie yourself to some ideals of the past can have both advantages and disadvantages, but to commit yourself in to something that does not take account of the ever changing world is foolish in the extreme. Do we get everything we want in this life? Of course we don't, but if we get 95% of it that is pretty good. I chose 95% simply because that is what the UK voted for and got within the EU.
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Having worked with Mickey Mouse your young French friend is now qualified to work in the EU's Brussels accounts office. Perhaps he could look for the missing cash?
 
yorkshirehornet said:
People gave their lives for our freedoms today... and continue to do so around the world....

You clearly only care for yourself and your interests... that is where we differ....
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They would be horrified that people like you are willing to give it away cheaply.
 
superhorns said:
We don't need to we have already won the argument. We are more concerned about the future than the past, preventing outside interference in our national issues.
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You don’t represent every leave voter, and it was you who was asked the question after making an assertion. The fact that you can’t back that meaningless soundbite with anything with a basis in actual fact, is standard for your ilk though.
 
superhorns said:
They would be horrified that people like you are willing to give it away cheaply.
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This is just your usual rhetoric

Freedoms are hard and fought for. Our predecessors fought for a peaceful and united Europe....... Hard Brexiters want to give all that up for some sort of unproven Arcadia based on so called Halycon days of Yore.. .that is what the rhetoric is... seems to me it is more about personal gain.....
 
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superhorns said:
We don't need to we have already won the argument. We are more concerned about the future than the past, preventing outside interference in our national issues.
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As I have said - repeatedly - read 'On Fantasy Island' by conor gearty. Then tell me about 'sovereignty'. You have absolutely no idea what it means in practice. You don't seem to know idea what EU membership has done for our 'sovereignty'. You have no idea how much 'outside interference' already exists in the governing of the UK, quite independently of the EU. The 'sovereignty' argument is emotional nonsense - but perhaps only apparent if you actually delve into its meaning in relation to the rest of the world.
It would be a good idea - I think - if you said that you voted to leave the EU because it was what you wanted. Reasons are not necessary. It doesn't matter that everybody else on this forum thinks differently.You don't need to spend two years in specious arguments and pointless distractions whenever challenged to try to provide some intellectual justification for your choice. I accept your choice. I do think that almost everything you have said in the last two years confirms my belief that - however it was arrived at - the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK. Almost everything that the govt. has done since the referendum confirms my belief that the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK. Almost every prediction for the future of the Uk , from inside the UK, from inside the EU, from inside international bodies confirms my belief that the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK.
The real tragedy is that this decision will be foisted on our children and their children.
Whilst I have really enjoyed reading all the detailed arguments put forward by so many people on this thread - and had to laugh if not cry at the arguments put forward by one contributor - it is completely pointless to continue. Trying to change the mind of a xenophobic bigot is a waste of the time I have left on this earth.
 
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J T Bodbo said:
As I have said - repeatedly - read 'On Fantasy Island' by conor gearty. Then tell me about 'sovereignty'. You have absolutely no idea what it means in practice. You don't seem to know idea what EU membership has done for our 'sovereignty'. You have no idea how much 'outside interference' already exists in the governing of the UK, quite independently of the EU. The 'sovereignty' argument is emotional nonsense - but perhaps only apparent if you actually delve into its meaning in relation to the rest of the world.
It would be a good idea - I think - if you said that you voted to leave the EU because it was what you wanted. Reasons are not necessary. It doesn't matter that everybody else on this forum thinks differently.You don't need to spend two years in specious arguments and pointless distractions whenever challenged to try to provide some intellectual justification for your choice. I accept your choice. I do think that almost everything you have said in the last two years confirms my belief that - however it was arrived at - the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK. Almost everything that the govt. has done since the referendum confirms my belief that the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK. Almost every prediction for the future of the Uk , from inside the UK, from inside the EU, from inside international bodies confirms my belief that the result of the referendum was a bad choice for the future of the UK.
The real tragedy is that this decision will be foisted on our children and their children.
Whilst I have really enjoyed reading all the detailed arguments put forward by so many people on this thread - and had to laugh if not cry at the arguments put forward by one contributor - it is completely pointless to continue. Trying to change the mind of a xenophobic bigot is a waste of the time I have left on this earth.
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*drops the mic*
 
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The thing I find most amusing is the idea that even if it is pretty obvious to all thinking people that brexit is bad for the UK we have to go through with it. If you bought a car or a household appliance based on false advertising - it is going to save you time or money, goes this or that fast and will be simple to use - and you found none of these to be true, what would you do? Say -oh it was my will to buy it so I have to stick with it? No - you would demand your money back. You were sold a pup and you have the right to return it.
But somehow for the most important event in the last few hundred years the UK has to abide by a vote on one day - even if today people had changed their minds.
Crazy!!
 
Leo said:
The thing I find most amusing is the idea that even if it is pretty obvious to all thinking people that brexit is bad for the UK we have to go through with it. If you bought a car or a household appliance based on false advertising - it is going to save you time or money, goes this or that fast and will be simple to use - and you found none of these to be true, what would you do? Say -oh it was my will to buy it so I have to stick with it? No - you would demand your money back. You were sold a pup and you have the right to return it.
But somehow for the most important event in the last few hundred years the UK has to abide by a vote on one day - even if today people had changed their minds.
Crazy!!
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We are going through with it because that is how our democratic system works. The process was never going to be easy because of the EU's fear that a liberated UK would naturally have an economic advantage. We have had much project fear by some for self interest purposes. Some people shy away from any risk whatsoever, they are normally the ones whinging about the unfairness in life.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
This is just your usual rhetoric

Freedoms are hard and fought for. Our predecessors fought for a peaceful and united Europe....... Hard Brexiters want to give all that up for some sort of unproven Arcadia based on so called Halycon days of Yore.. .that is what the rhetoric is... seems to me it is more about personal gain.....
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Our predecessors fought to not be dominated by Germans, that is one of the reason people voted for Brexit.
 
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