Off Topic UK / EU Future

This was one of the problems Frenchie. There was no European imput into the referendum debate. I think the reason was that the rest of the EU. did not want to appear to be interfering in what was seen as a British internal affair - and so, many of the lies were not corrected at the time.

 

I just don't believe you..... values are values...they dont just change .... you dont hold one hint of the values that underpin socialism......

Tell me what your views were then????? and why they changed????

 

Many older people voted for Brexit because they had witnessed the slide towards a European superstate from the perfectly sensible original idea of a free market area. Many youngsters did not vote in the referendum showing their apathy towards current affairs. They would rather be watching crap like Love Island. 17.4 million of all ages voted to free the UK from the straightjacket of the EU.
The EU were always going the make the process of the UK leaving as difficult as possible, they have not disappointed.
You can see around the EU there is also a growing unease with the current set up in Brussels. The UK will be the first of several to leave, the project has failed, especially for those in Southern Europe.

 

My values are just as high today, I'm just much better on concentrating on what actually works. Those running around London with silly masks on achieve absolutely nothing.

 

Just to go back to my young French friend who I have known since he was a 10 year old, he went to Uni to study science, and during the holiday periods he worked at Euro Disney to earn some spending money. He was in one of the information centres, so met people from all over the world. He has travelled around Europe since, and I would say he has a well rounded view of life. I think that cologne used a key word in one of his posts, pragmatic. Yes, let's take life as it comes. To want to tie yourself to some ideals of the past can have both advantages and disadvantages, but to commit yourself in to something that does not take account of the ever changing world is foolish in the extreme. Do we get everything we want in this life? Of course we don't, but if we get 95% of it that is pretty good. I chose 95% simply because that is what the UK voted for and got within the EU.

 

Nobody else will be leaving the EU. The reason is that the UK. is the only country which can have a one party government. In order to achieve the same result in any other EU. country you would need a coalition of parties all offering a referendum. The sequence of events which happened in the UK. is only really possible in a country with a first past the post electoral system. A growing unease with the current set up does not equal running away from it, but rather staying and reforming from inside. You will find that there are more Scots (percentually) who want to leave the UK. than there are people prepared to leave the EU. in any one country. So I suggest you give more care to the survival of project UK.

 

Well the UK has now rejected the EU and has voted to leave so we will see what we get.

 

"17.4 million of all ages voted to free the UK from the straightjacket of the EU".

Despite being asked yesterday three or four times how SH felt he was having his personal liberty curtailed by EU regulations, he didn't come up with a single answer. Today he is just repeating another soundbite.

 

The more enlightened Scots know they would be bankrupt without their subsidies from London, no chance of them leaving.

 

You completely fail to understand the principal behind the basic requirement of people around the world to want sovereignty for their own land. You may be used to being subservient most naturally reject it.

 

You have said that many people know that leaving the EU. will cause hardships but want to do it anyway - why should the Scots be any different ?

 

The way you cling to the Tory party, although as it has been split into several factions it is difficult to know which part, suggests that you are subservient to it.

 

Like the majority of voters during the last eight years I also deem the Tories to be the only viable option for government.

Unlike you I'm subservient to a force much nearer home, the missus.

 

I do not think you can make any presumptions about basic requirements of people around the World. Do they want their laws made at the supranational level, the national level, the regional level, the local level, or just at their village level ? Why stop at any one of those levels and say that it has priority over all others ? I personally would like my laws made as close to me as possible, where I can directly influence their formation - my 'own land' extending not much more than a kilometre in all directions. Why should the nation state have priority over all other focuses of loyalty (both larger and smaller) ? I would prefer to have as few laws as possible because every law means that people have been unable to regulate between each other (if every smoker had considered the needs of non smokers would we have needed non smoking laws ?). The problem is that we have laws coming from all levels at once and this, combined with intransparency, means that most people do not know where their laws originate - the buck is passed - unpopular laws are blamed on Brussels, and the people lack the information needed to counter that claim.

 

I have not said that at all. I said the outcome is unknown but would be prepared for a slight downturn in growth in the short term.

Scotland is entirely dependent on England for subsidies and financial guarantees. Quite a different prospect.

Even after the repeated whinging by the SNP that they are being dragged out of the EU against their will there has been absolutely no rise in the percentage for independence. This is on top of falling support for the SNP in the last election, they have had their watershed moment, all downhill from now on.

 

I would say most would want to firstly secure national independence, then regional, then local. There does need to be a quickening of the present trend to give regions more power in the UK.

 

Scots actually represent 8.4% of the UK. total population but generate 9.4% of its annual revenues in tax - equivalent to 1,000 pounds extra per person, so are you absolutely sure who is subsidizing who ?

 

Do you not know of the Barnett formula? If Scotland left its debt mountain would rise from 90%of GDP to 140% of GDP. With declining oil prices it would struggle to meet its debt obligations.

 

And still you do not give one example where the EU has overridden our 'sovereignty' to our detriment.
BTW - do learn to spell properly.

 

Look them up yourself.