Off Topic UK / EU Future

[yorkshirehornet]

No, but I'm glad I'm not wishy washy like you.

You always have to personalise don't you...
I have not heard one comment from you that indicates you are anything other than a right wing voter who had joined the Tory party recently and positions themselves in the right of that party.
Your economic views are all right wing.
Your views on sovereignty are all right wing.
How about your views on
Education
Health
Social Care
Justice
Society
??
Not wishy washy my friend.. Just caring.. Like many many people

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[yorkshirehornet]

Toyota and BMW today discussing leaving the UK with a no deal Brexit.

Anyone here advocating a no deal??
Your views?

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[Deleted.......]

Toyota and BMW today discussing leaving the UK with a no deal Brexit.

Anyone here advocating a no deal??
Your views?

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It's brilliant news for British Leyland

 

[superhorns]

[

It's brilliant news for British Leyland

Don't tell Red Robbo!!

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Well there we had it, Failing finally found his way into the Chamber today. It cannot be that often that a Government minister finds fame on the International stage for sheer incompetence, but our towering brain has succeeded in achieving it. Even in New York his outstanding contribution has been noted, with a lengthy article on his outstanding record on spending taxpayers money as if there is a never ending supply.
Of course he had two or three plants on the deserted Tory benches, who tried to support him by suggesting he was not really at fault, but the government as a whole. This one threw the opposition for just a moment as they couldn't quite believe what they were hearing. Don't blame this fool, put the blame at the feet of the PM. Did they really mean to say this? One member suggested that £33M didn't actually equate to real money as he had not cost a single penny. Another seemed to think that the money was actually going to the Port of Dover, and not to the Eurotunnel shareholders. Maybe the Tories have an unending supply of these MPs who can show why the electorate should question them on really simple things when the next election comes round. However long before the list of his failures had been aired he had slopped off to the nearest bar to refortify himself, and to have his perspiring pate mopped down.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Toyota and BMW today discussing leaving the UK with a no deal Brexit.

Anyone here advocating a no deal??
Your views?

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Seems as if Nissan is now joining in the warnings. Of course it is all project fear.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

It is a shame but Morgan cars have been bought by Italians. With the company buying in the engines from BMW, it was always likely that they would want to be certain of obtaining supplies. So the family company which has owned it for 110 years have decided to sell up. A friend bought the kit version of one and built it up in his spare time. It was a joy to have a drive in it.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

It is a shame but Morgan cars have been bought by Italians. With the company buying in the engines from BMW, it was always likely that they would want to be certain of obtaining supplies. So the family company which has owned it for 110 years have decided to sell up. A friend bought the kit version of one and built it up in his spare time. It was a joy to have a drive in it.

Great shame.. An all time classic that a friend had in my youth.. Great days driving out to Santana!
News item on look north last night about the Guilleta luxury sports car just out in Yorkshire..

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[superhorns]

You always have to personalise don't you...
I have not heard one comment from you that indicates you are anything other than a right wing voter who had joined the Tory party recently and positions themselves in the right of that party.
Your economic views are all right wing.
Your views on sovereignty are all right wing.
How about your views on
Education
Health
Social Care
Justice
Society
??
Not wishy washy my friend.. Just caring.. Like many many people

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Instead of constantly whinging you would be more useful to society if you became a Tory entrepreneur who created lots of jobs and paid lots of tax. The wealth creation from businesses pay for much of our public services, you really need to learn more about how society works.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

Instead of constantly whinging you would be more useful to society if you became a Tory entrepreneur who created lots of jobs and paid lots of tax. The wealth creation from businesses pay for much of our public services, you really need to learn more about how society works.

Happily the world needs the caring professions.. I was a head teacher as well as running a university health and social care department.. And continue to support a number of initiatives for deprived and oppressed people matey. I can assure you, you have no idea of my contribution.

Maybe you could spend some of your free time and money putting something back.

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[yorkshirehornet]

Meanwhile I note you have side stepped my question... Answers please?

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[superhorns]

Happily the world needs the caring professions.. I was a head teacher as well as running a university health and social care department.. And continue to support a number of initiatives for deprived and oppressed people matey. I can assure you, you have no idea of my contribution.

Maybe you could spend some of your free time and money putting something back.

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We certainly need people like you matey but you also need to understand the massive contribution to society that entrepreneurs and business owners make. There would be very little funds for good causes without wealth creation. I certainly appreciate what people like yourself have done and are doing. Your blanket derision of anybody that votes Conservative is plainly ridiculous and you should know better as a former head not to generalise.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

We certainly need people like you matey but you also need to understand the massive contribution to society that entrepreneurs and business owners make. There would be very little funds for good causes without wealth creation. I certainly appreciate what people like yourself have done and are doing. Your blanket derision of anybody that votes Conservative is plainly ridiculous and you should know better as a former head not to generalise.

Where is my blanket derision? In your head I think.. All you ever do in here is gloat about being a better than person.. And then have a go at the rest of us for being reasonable whilst having differing views.. All that clique claptrap...

Society needs all sorts of people clearly. Healers, dealers, builders and carers etcetera... Why you continually seek to make out that a certain brand of business people seem to have higher value than the rest of society is beyond me..
Look at Japanese society as an example.. A highly technological and developed business culture and yet pay differentials are amongst the lowest as people are valued not simply for their capacity to go anf hunt the mammoth for food but equally for cooking, nursing, or being the holy person...
We All need each other and you have seriously underestimated the value of fellow posters on here as an example.

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[colognehornet]

We certainly need people like you matey but you also need to understand the massive contribution to society that entrepreneurs and business owners make. There would be very little funds for good causes without wealth creation. I certainly appreciate what people like yourself have done and are doing. Your blanket derision of anybody that votes Conservative is plainly ridiculous and you should know better as a former head not to generalise.

I know that your idol Thatcher believed that there was no such thing as society SH. but the truth is that everyone needs everyone else - with no exceptions. There is no 'one group' of people who are more important than others. Before somebody became an entrepreneuer somebody else had to feed him, somebody else had to built his house and his car, somebody else had to either build his roads or his transport system, somebody else had to nurse him, somebody else had to clothe him, somebody else had to keep his streets safe, and somebody else had to keep his property safe. Another 'somebody' had to educate him. You could go on and on - if the entrepreneuer had been born in the middle of the bush in eg. Chad he would have had none of those things done for him. Without the state and society you have no such thing as even private ownership - in many parts of Africa (without the presence of the state) you have to pay protection money, or bribe the police if you want any protection. I would certainly not deride a person for voting Conservative - I would deride them for not voting anything and then complaining about the result. The only real 'wealth creator' is society itself - firstly because society made the entrepreneur in the first place, and secondly, because you need spending power over a broad base of society before any industry can flourish. The best way to stimulate growth is to increase spending power at the base of the societal pyramid - not to allow the rich to get richer hoping that their wealth will trickle down as if from a fountain.

 

[superhorns]

Where is my blanket derision? In your head I think.. All you ever do in here is gloat about being a better than person.. And then have a go at the rest of us for being reasonable whilst having differing views.. All that clique claptrap...

Society needs all sorts of people clearly. Healers, dealers, builders and carers etcetera... Why you continually seek to make out that a certain brand of business people seem to have higher value than the rest of society is beyond me..
Look at Japanese society as an example.. A highly technological and developed business culture and yet pay differentials are amongst the lowest as people are valued not simply for their capacity to go anf hunt the mammoth for food but equally for cooking, nursing, or being the holy person...
We All need each other and you have seriously underestimated the value of fellow posters on here as an example.

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It is you that is constantly deriding anybody that dares to post a view which may be considered right of centre.

The 'clique' tag was corrected attributed to some posters, including you, by another long term member of this forum.

I have full respect for those that serve rather than chase the dollar but there is a blatant lack of understanding of commerce by several posters who clearly have no experience at all. We need the skills of everybody in society.

How many would hand the deeds of their house over to a bank for 10 years, without knowing it would ever come back? How about running up £70k worth of personal credit card debt just to keep the company afloat and paying the staff? Not easy my friend.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

It is you that is constantly deriding anybody that dares to post a view which may be considered right of centre.

The 'clique' tag was corrected attributed to some posters, including you, by another long term member of this forum.

I have full respect for those that serve rather than chase the dollar but there is a blatant lack of understanding of commerce by several posters who clearly have no experience at all. We need the skills of everybody in society.

How many would hand the deeds of their house over to a bank for 10 years, without knowing it would ever come back? How about running up £70k worth of personal credit card debt just to keep the company afloat and paying the staff? Not easy my friend.

You make a good point that none of us would disagree with, especially about needing the skills of everybody. Some of us have considerable experience of running a company employing 100 people, which gives you a great responsibility to them and their families. so it is not really just those who you employ. You can attempt to be seen as a fair employer, sharing the profits with those who contribute to making them, including the shareholders, but when you are for example a bricky and you see the boss getting a £75M bonus, that does nothing to motivate the bricky to do even better. That is unfettered greed.
I also agree that to pay for good services the government needs good revenue, but therein lies a problem. The revenue has not been good enough for many years which is why the austerity measures have been so bad for many sectors of society. It could have been a lot better if we hadn't seen the constant flow of money being taken out of the country. This is why I have said before that there is good and bad inward investment into the country. This can only get a lot worse as some of the largest employers find that they cannot continue providing employment and taxes after the UK leaves the EU.
Many have handed the deeds of their houses over, it is a common bank lending means of security, but if you are only talking about £70k, that is actually not a lot. A single fairly simple machine tool could cost me twice that amount.
As I have said many times before, there is no clique here, just a majority of posters who disagree with you. Accept it, but don't keep trying to suggest that there is some sort of concerted effort to argue with you, because whatever comes back is the individual opinions of individual posters.

 

[superhorns]

You make a good point that none of us would disagree with, especially about needing the skills of everybody. Some of us have considerable experience of running a company employing 100 people, which gives you a great responsibility to them and their families. so it is not really just those who you employ. You can attempt to be seen as a fair employer, sharing the profits with those who contribute to making them, including the shareholders, but when you are for example a bricky and you see the boss getting a £75M bonus, that does nothing to motivate the bricky to do even better. That is unfettered greed.
I also agree that to pay for good services the government needs good revenue, but therein lies a problem. The revenue has not been good enough for many years which is why the austerity measures have been so bad for many sectors of society. It could have been a lot better if we hadn't seen the constant flow of money being taken out of the country. This is why I have said before that there is good and bad inward investment into the country. This can only get a lot worse as some of the largest employers find that they cannot continue providing employment and taxes after the UK leaves the EU.
Many have handed the deeds of their houses over, it is a common bank lending means of security, but if you are only talking about £70k, that is actually not a lot. A single fairly simple machine tool could cost me twice that amount.
As I have said many times before, there is no clique here, just a majority of posters who disagree with you. Accept it, but don't keep trying to suggest that there is some sort of concerted effort to argue with you, because whatever comes back is the individual opinions of individual posters.

You are confused, the £70k was personal credit cards as a last resort. The house was collateral for bank borrowing, for a £500k overdraft.

You cannot stop money leaving the country if conditions do not suit international investors. The trick is to create conditions which attract fickle investors who have the whole world to chose from. Ireland has done extremely well at inward investment as previously discussed. Wilson tried to impose currency control, it failed miserably. The UK has managed to be the leading place for inward investment for many years due to it's business friendly attitude, first class legal system and flexible labour force. This will continue after Brexit. The UK has almost full employment, there will be winners and losers after Brexit but unemployment will remain low, certainly by French standards.

Your concern about unemployment should be directed where it is really needed, in those EU countries that continue to struggle with massively high levels.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

You are confused, the £70k was personal credit cards as a last resort. The house was collateral for bank borrowing, for a £500k overdraft.

You cannot stop money leaving the country if conditions do not suit international investors. The trick is to create conditions which attract fickle investors who have the whole world to chose from. Ireland has done extremely well at inward investment as previously discussed. Wilson tried to impose currency control, it failed miserably. The UK has managed to be the leading place for inward investment for many years due to it's business friendly attitude, first class legal system and flexible labour force. This will continue after Brexit. The UK has almost full employment, there will be winners and losers after Brexit but unemployment will remain low, certainly by French standards.

Your concern about unemployment should be directed where it is really needed, in those EU countries that continue to struggle with massively high levels.

So the business was in trouble if you were using credit cards, suggesting the bank considered you a bad risk to lend any more to. Not exactly the situation for someone to come here and tell us about running an economy.
You say that inward investment, which you now admit sees money leaving the country, will continue after Brexit. Can you suggest where this is likely to come from seeing as the country will no longer be a gateway into Europe. Car manufacturing leaving, pharmaceuticals leaving to mention two of the largest earners in the manufacturing industries. Remember that there is almost nothing in the trade discussions about services, so it is little wonder that the High Court has been granting large providers of these services permission to take not millions but trillions of pounds out of the country. The legal system will no longer be the first place that foreign companies look to as their trade will be with countries in the EU, underwritten by EU law. Your flexible labour force is rapidly disappearing as the EU citizens return to their home countries, and already companies are complaining that they are unable to fill vacancies.
So maybe you can put forward why an investor from overseas should put money into the country unless it is to buy up on the cheap, take the best bits away, then leave more destruction behind.

 

[superhorns]

So the business was in trouble if you were using credit cards, suggesting the bank considered you a bad risk to lend any more to. Not exactly the situation for someone to come here and tell us about running an economy.
You say that inward investment, which you now admit sees money leaving the country, will continue after Brexit. Can you suggest where this is likely to come from seeing as the country will no longer be a gateway into Europe. Car manufacturing leaving, pharmaceuticals leaving to mention two of the largest earners in the manufacturing industries. Remember that there is almost nothing in the trade discussions about services, so it is little wonder that the High Court has been granting large providers of these services permission to take not millions but trillions of pounds out of the country. The legal system will no longer be the first place that foreign companies look to as their trade will be with countries in the EU, underwritten by EU law. Your flexible labour force is rapidly disappearing as the EU citizens return to their home countries, and already companies are complaining that they are unable to fill vacancies.
So maybe you can put forward why an investor from overseas should put money into the country unless it is to buy up on the cheap, take the best bits away, then leave more destruction behind.

Your analysis of my business is as faulty as the third rate bank manager at the time. The business became extremely successful. Some of the best entrepreneurs have had similar moments when sheer determination makes the difference. Most bank employees are like the general public with no idea about running a business.

Your predictions have always proved to be faulty, your gullibility over project fear 2 will undoubtedly lead to more.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Your analysis of my business is as faulty as the third rate bank manager at the time. The business became extremely successful. Some of the best entrepreneurs have had similar moments when sheer determination makes the difference. Most bank employees are like the general public with no idea about running a business.

Your predictions have always proved to be faulty, your gullibility over project fear 2 will undoubtedly lead to more.

I think that anyone who reads this will see the usual reaction. Blame anyone but yourself for getting into a mess. Bank managers, Prime Ministers, cabinet ministers, other posters, the EU. You reflect the ERG and DUP. Minorities who are only interested in what is good for them, and the country is of secondary importance. Maybe I am not surprised, but you don't seem to have tackled the questions I asked about future inward investment.