Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

[Muppetfinder General]

Despite us and the world ridiculing Trump, it looks like the americans think he is the best thing since sliced bread. They can't see through his stupidity and his self promoting behaviour.

It is depressing that he is going to be re-elected again. Those dictators all over the world who have ditched democracy can point to him and say "This is what happens when you let the people decide" One can never underestimate the ability of the masses to be duped. In politics, as in health matters, all political opportunists need is some thin veneer of plausibility allied to heavy marketing and loads of demagoguery. In this day and age no one has the time to dig deeper into any subject.

Many of them can see through his stupid public utterances but they don't care. Ed Balls' series has to be commended for trying to break through the stereotypes of the typical Trump voter. People who voted for Obama twice voted for Trump. Women, blacks and Mexicans voted for Trump. They are not ignorant of what he said; they live it. But they don't care. And that is something the Democrats need to wake up to, or he will, indeed, get re-elected. Thankfully, after an initial bout of denial, they seem to be accepting their own share of the responsibility for him winning in the first place. Bernie Sanders' support was from the same place of disillusion as Trump's vote and they ignored it.

Of course far right supporters voted for him but they've always voted Republican, just as I've always voted Labour. We are not the ones who decide elections. It's the people in the middle, the supposed moderates and "sensible" non-partisan folk, who decide elections. That's a complexity which has been missing from much modern debate.

It's ironic that young people are supposedly so enlightened and complain that Brexit and Trump were voted for by old people who weren't informed, when all the research shows that intelligence levels have dropped in recent decades, logically meaning it's the young who are less informed. They're also more likely to have less belief in democracy, so more likely to elect those same dictators the older generation are being blamed for.

As Jon Stewart, formerly of the Daily Show and one of America's foremost liberal broadcasters said:

"I thought Donald Trump disqualified himself at numerous points but there is now this idea that anyone who voted for him has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric. There are guys in my neighborhood that I love, that I respect, that I think have incredible qualities, who are not afraid of Mexicans and not afraid of muslims and not afraid of blacks, they're afraid of their insurance premiums.

"In the liberal community you hate this idea of creating people as a monolith. Don't look at muslims as a monolith. They are individuals and it would be ignorance. But everybody who voted for Trump is a monolith, is a racist. That hypocrisy is also real in our country."

 

[carlthejackal]

Many of them can see through his stupid public utterances but they don't care. Ed Balls' series has to be commended for trying to break through the stereotypes of the typical Trump voter. People who voted for Obama twice voted for Trump. Women, blacks and Mexicans voted for Trump. They are not ignorant of what he said; they live it. But they don't care. And that is something the Democrats need to wake up to, or he will, indeed, get re-elected. Thankfully, after an initial bout of denial, they seem to be accepting their own share of the responsibility for him winning in the first place. Bernie Sanders' support was from the same place of disillusion as Trump's vote and they ignored it.

Of course far right supporters voted for him but they've always voted Republican, just as I've always voted Labour. We are not the ones who decide elections. It's the people in the middle, the supposed moderates and "sensible" non-partisan folk, who decide elections. That's a complexity which has been missing from much modern debate.

It's ironic that young people are supposedly so enlightened and complain that Brexit and Trump were voted for by old people who weren't informed, when all the research shows that intelligence levels have dropped in recent decades, logically meaning it's the young who are less informed. They're also more likely to have less belief in democracy, so more likely to elect those same dictators the older generation are being blamed for.

As Jon Stewart, formerly of the Daily Show and one of America's foremost liberal broadcasters said:

"I thought Donald Trump disqualified himself at numerous points but there is now this idea that anyone who voted for him has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric. There are guys in my neighborhood that I love, that I respect, that I think have incredible qualities, who are not afraid of Mexicans and not afraid of muslims and not afraid of blacks, they're afraid of their insurance premiums.

"In the liberal community you hate this idea of creating people as a monolith. Don't look at muslims as a monolith. They are individuals and it would be ignorance. But everybody who voted for Trump is a monolith, is a racist. That hypocrisy is also real in our country."

Hit the nail on the head: too many people just couldn’t give a damn about the future.

That’s the danger. We have unfortunately a large group of “reasonable” people: neighbours, work colleagues, family relatives who want to give the “establishment “ a bloody nose. To see what will happen if an “interesting “ person who is not a “professional “ politician become the POTUS. A bit like Brexit: I’ve heard of some people saying: “ I don’t understand Brexit. I don’t know what will happen if we leave but isn’t it exciting to have a new situation, to give the establishment a bloody nose, to change things?”

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Hit the nail on the head: too many people just couldn’t give a damn about the future.

That’s the danger. We have unfortunately a large group of “reasonable” people: neighbours, work colleagues, family relatives who want to give the “establishment “ a bloody nose. To see what will happen if an “interesting “ person who is not a “professional “ politician become the POTUS. A bit like Brexit: I’ve heard of some people saying: “ I don’t understand Brexit. I don’t know what will happen if we leave but isn’t it exciting to have a new situation, to give the establishment a bloody nose, to change things?”

From what I understand a lot of people voted for Brexit as a protest vote against the EU not thinking it could possibly pass but wanting to register their frustrations.

For POTUS it's a different story. A lot of people who pass on voting pass because they think their vote doesn't count, politicians completely ignore you too... And yes I know that happens everywhere but it's worse in the US with the system in place.

Unless you live in a swing state your vote really doesn't count. Here in South Carolina for example it's a foregone conclusion the Republican will ALWAYS win and win in every state level vote. Including the states count for the electoral college for federal positions (Local county level positions may vary because not all counties are right wing).

Same is true for most of the deep South and the entire flyover state region.


On the other hand the west coast and most of New England the Democrat will always win and not much incentive for Republicans to vote.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

the electoral college was invented in sure to address a population imbalance or some such but in reality at this point the two party system allied with serious splits between regions means that republicans might as well not bother voting on some places and democrats in others which means there could be a time where the president loses by 10million in popular vote but wins the college.

I find two party politics as silly as communism though.

it's democracy but absolutley barely.

not that the UK is much better.

 

[carlthejackal]

the electoral college was invented in sure to address a population imbalance or some such but in reality at this point the two party system allied with serious splits between regions means that republicans might as well not bother voting on some places and democrats in others which means there could be a time where the president loses by 10million in popular vote but wins the college.

I find two party politics as silly as communism though.

it's democracy but absolutley barely.

not that the UK is much better.

Surely the best way to address any “population imbalance “ and to give every voter a say is to have a simple system: the candidate with the most votes in a straight 1 to 1 contest wins. The system for electing the POTUS is simply undemocratic. How can anyone justify having a president elected by fewer than the majority of voters ? And the person who received the most votes loses? Again a bad point for so called democratic government in the West.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Surely the best way to address any “population imbalance “ and to give every voter a say is to have a simple system: the candidate with the most votes in a straight 1 to 1 contest wins. The system for electing the POTUS is simply undemocratic. How can anyone justify having a president elected by fewer than the majority of voters ? And the person who received the most votes loses? Again a bad point for so called democratic government in the West.

Most people agree with you. However, it won't change because the current system favours the Republican party. Republicans in the modern era typically do better with electoral college than straight vote. Therefore they would block any amendment.

A number of states are making laws that would force the state to vote for who gets the most electoral votes rather than college (once they get majority)... This would in essence make the vote a straight vote rather than an electoral vote with having to pass an amendment (which would be much harder).

They still need a few more states to agree to that though before they get the majority of electoral college seats.


Technically the clue to why Electoral college was used in the first place is hinted at in the name of the country ... The United STATES. Originally the country was a confederation of independent countries. The idea behind the current system was to make it so that smaller less populated states didn't get ignored and dominated by bigger states by pooling all the votes from low population states together they're more likely to be listened to.

Ironically in the modern day the size difference between states is so extreme that candidates more or less ignore the smaller states because even pooled their votes are meaningless.

Essentially though the system favours rural voters... Which in this day and age tends to be Republican.

Both Bush and Trump lost popular vote but won electoral vote.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Surely the best way to address any “population imbalance “ and to give every voter a say is to have a simple system: the candidate with the most votes in a straight 1 to 1 contest wins. The system for electing the POTUS is simply undemocratic. How can anyone justify having a president elected by fewer than the majority of voters ? And the person who received the most votes loses? Again a bad point for so called democratic government in the West.

you'd wonder but if you want the state of Arizona, Nevada and new Mexico or Utah or Dakota to be in the union you have to give them a bit more influence.

however I thought the Senate did that?

the congrwss I think is more reflective if populations?

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

you'd wonder but if you want the state of Arizona, Nevada and new Mexico or Utah or Dakota to be in the union you have to give them a bit more influence.

however I thought the Senate did that?

the congrwss I think is more reflective if populations?

It's a messed up system that is out of date. As I said though. It will never be repealed as long as it favours one of the main parties because they wouldn't want to give up their advantage and since it requires 75% of states to pass an approval to an amendment (and majority of states are low population rural states... The ones that get advantage from it).

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

imo the death of American democracy is well on its way

 

[Tobes]

Meanwhile in the U.K.

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[moreinjuredthanowen]

I wonder where is the breaking point.

I read that the number of eu nationals working in uk has dropped for the first time since 1997. No much there 87k less makes Nigel feel better.

Pound weakening
Growth slow at 0.4% but this is only growth as pound is weskening. In constant currency terms manufacturingbis in recession.
Inflation above target at 2.4%
On the other hand unemployment is down slightly even as the eu citizens leave and wages are up slightly.


When will Brexit bite?
Is the UK merely missing out on boom time in other countries as it's a great time globally

 

[Diego]

I wonder where is the breaking point.

I read that the number of eu nationals working in uk has dropped for the first time since 1997. No much there 87k less makes Nigel feel better.

Pound weakening
Growth slow at 0.4% but this is only growth as pound is weskening. In constant currency terms manufacturingbis in recession.
Inflation above target at 2.4%
On the other hand unemployment is down slightly even as the eu citizens leave and wages are up slightly.


When will Brexit bite?
Is the UK merely missing out on boom time in other countries as it's a great time globally

No, we are about to join the rest of the globe and leave the in-turned protectionist EU behind.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

No, we are about to join the rest of the globe and leave the in-turned protectionist EU behind.

who Turkey, USA and China, India?

join them in what?

it's like walking into a pack of wild hungry dogs and asking them for a bone

my view on this is we've not ignored any of these markets before and traded under the was large 500mil market block. now with 60mil we will be wanting better terms as a market. Why wouldn't China or India demand a bit more to trade with them?

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

No, we are about to join the rest of the globe and leave the in-turned protectionist EU behind.

You stupid ****ing prick. **** off back to your own dead forum, arsewipe.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

inflation up again slightly

unemployment at near record lows.
numbers of eu nationals working falls.

welcome to brexit utopia

 

[DirtyFrank]

inflation up again slightly

unemployment at near record lows.
numbers of eu nationals working falls.

welcome to brexit utopia

Wages stagnating for about the 10th year in a row.

Woohoo... I have a job.... oh **** I can't afford anything ....

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Wages stagnating for about the 10th year in a row.

Woohoo... I have a job.... oh **** I can't afford anything ....

that is exactly how Tory boy wants you.

working hard for them, happy with carling and blow and eating low grade ultra cheap foods.

thatcher started that in the 70s.

what has changed.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I see a certain lawyer has just cut a deal to cop a plea in the USA.

I predict overnight trump will come up with some global crisis of some sort to distract from this.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

I see a certain lawyer has just cut a deal to cop a plea in the USA.

I predict overnight trump will come up with some global crisis of some sort to distract from this.

He seems to wriggle out of everything.

His base don't care what he does or has done and even his detractors eventually forget one calamity as a new controversy always follows that takes its place. He is slippery and seems to avoid punishment or consequence for his misdeeds.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

He seems to wriggle out of everything.

His base don't care what he does or has done and even his detractors eventually forget one calamity as a new controversy always follows that takes its place. He is slippery and seems to avoid punishment or consequence for his misdeeds.

until yanks who actually think they are hard done by stand up and vote and break the republican stranglehold on the houses any and all excesses are permitted.

not making anyone in power sit up and take notice