Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

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Another day, another progressive accused of rape and sexual assault. That is around 10 very prominent people who flipped out over Trump's grab her by the pussy tape, who have dark pasts.
No wonder they protest so much, anything that keeps the eye off of them is good in their book
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...-metoo-cosmos-fox-investigation-a8662386.html

Neil deGrasse Tyson: New sexual misconduct allegations to be investigated by Fox and National Geographic
"Tchiya Amet told David Gee at Patheos that Tyson drugged and raped her in 1984. “Until the alleged incident,” Patheos reports, she “says she was on track to becoming the world’s first black female astronaut. But afterward, she dropped out of the program, suffered from PTSD, and sought therapy repeatedly.”

“She told me she was at his apartment when he offered her water, and the next thing she remembered was waking up to an assault."
 
BobbyD said:
Hes a remainer mito
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yes but that's irrelevant at the moment. Brexit means all the things he is whining about are gone no matter what deal so his excuse about cos satellites and suddenly realising the UK gets shafted is deluded and fantasy space.

if you've gone this far down the road
11.5th hour then decided the eu won't be giving us cake and then extra cake to eat so we don't need to eat our own...
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
It seems to me the self advancement is far more important than brexit itself.

The last election and 6 months ago was the time to shunt may out. The Brexiteer ****e in the Tory party wouldn't do it. Labour sat back and did nothing but now think they can change the outcome.

I can't see a way to change anything at all bar the extension of a year on the exit program already offered by eu and rejected by may.

The 11th who knows whats going to happen... they are all fairly confident there's going to be another vote anyway. It seems the1st gote isfor posturing.
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Those who sold Brexit on promises of a brighter future and sunny uplands are now left with nothing but ‘no deal’ to hide behind to excuse them from actually writing down an actual plan, and thus it being directed and analysed.....

The bogus shysters Davis and Johnson are prime examples of this, with morons like Jenkyns, Dorries, Redwood and the monocled man of the people Mogg all in the same envelope.

Labour are tabling a motion that could well get through which would prohibit Parliament allowing a no deal outcome. So in the event of May’s deal being blocked, this would require either a withdrawal of A50 or much more likely a request to extend it, which would almost certainly be accepted by the EU, particularly if there was likely to be a second referendum.

I can see May having 2 goes at getting her withdrawal agreement through, if it fails then the Parliamentary impasse makes a second public vote a virtual certainty imo.
 
Tobes said:
Those who sold Brexit on promises of a brighter future and sunny uplands are now left with nothing but ‘no deal’ to hide behind to excuse them from actually writing down an actual plan, and thus it being directed and analysed.....

The bogus shysters Davis and Johnson are prime examples of this, with morons like Jenkyns, Dorries, Redwood and the monocled man of the people Mogg all in the same envelope.

Labour are tabling a motion that could well get through which would prohibit Parliament allowing a no deal outcome. So in the event of May’s deal being blocked, this would require either a withdrawal of A50 or much more likely a request to extend it, which would almost certainly be accepted by the EU, particularly if there was likely to be a second referendum.

I can see May having 2 goes at getting her withdrawal agreement through, if it fails then the Parliamentary impasse makes a second public vote a virtual certainty imo.
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I'm not sure that

a) there is any way a motion preventing a no deal Brexit has any standing as if the deal is voted down then it is two counter opposed votes that conflict.

b) article 50 withdrawal is a hmmm.. I am not sure what legal standing it would have to say actually not we are fine sorry for the last 2 years

c) eu Insta agreed this deal. there wasn't even one country with a real agenda. even Spain were shut down on Gibraltar. this is it.... they wont huge imo.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
I'm not sure that

a) there is any way a motion preventing a no deal Brexit has any standing as if the deal is voted down then it is two counter opposed votes that conflict.

b) article 50 withdrawal is a hmmm.. I am not sure what legal standing it would have to say actually not we are fine sorry for the last 2 years

c) eu Insta agreed this deal. there wasn't even one country with a real agenda. even Spain were shut down on Gibraltar. this is it.... they wont huge imo.
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1. Not true, if the motion passes then it would be Parliaments responsibility to ensure that a no deal outcome wasn’t the end result.

2.A50 can be withdrawn, what’s still open to legal debate is whether that could be done unilaterally i.e. without EU acceptance. There’s currently a privately raised case at the ECJ to try and get a definitive on that.

3. This is merely the withdrawal bill, Spain will try and leverage Gibraltar during the trade deal negotiations. As will France over fishing grounds etc etc etc
 
Tobes said:
1. Not true, if the motion passes then it would be Parliaments responsibility to ensure that a no deal outcome wasn’t the end result.

2.A50 can be withdrawn, what’s still open to legal debate is whether that could be done unilaterally i.e. without EU acceptance. There’s currently a privately raised case at the ECJ to try and get a definitive on that.

3. This is merely the withdrawal bill, Spain will try and leverage Gibraltar during the trade deal negotiations. As will France over fishing grounds etc etc etc
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On 1. How on earth can the parliament avoid no deal withoutvaccepting the deal they will have voted no on? It's a circular argument at that point? They have 21 days to state their intentions and then 7 days to vote on those intentions. That's 28 days from the 11th no vote and if there's no UK agreement to a deal the eu already agreed its no deal

On 2.. it's extremely shaky grounds and inviting a no deal crash out.

On 3... I completely agree, I fail to understand why people care on about other models when the actual model for trade isn't agreed at all. This is only terms of leaving. You are right that once we are out every self interest in eu will be out to st am us.

But that's brexit... it's deluded to think anything else
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
On 1. How on earth can the parliament avoid no deal withoutvaccepting the deal they will have voted no on? It's a circular argument at that point? They have 21 days to state their intentions and then 7 days to vote on those intentions. That's 28 days from the 11th no vote and if there's no UK agreement to a deal the eu already agreed its no deal

On 2.. it's extremely shaky grounds and inviting a no deal crash out.

On 3... I completely agree, I fail to understand why people care on about other models when the actual model for trade isn't agreed at all. This is only terms of leaving. You are right that once we are out every self interest in eu will be out to st am us.

But that's brexit... it's deluded to think anything else
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If they vote Mays deal down as well as passing a motion that meant parliament would do everything in its power to avoid a no deal outcome, then that pushes them into going for an A50 extension or withdrawing it. The motion and Mays deal vote aren’t conflated.
 
Tobes said:
If they vote Mays deal down as well as passing a motion that meant parliament would do everything in its power to avoid a no deal outcome, then that pushes them into going for an A50 extension or withdrawing it. The motion and Mays deal vote aren’t conflated.
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An extension was offered by ru prior to deal and rejected.

The issue is that one side has now decided the negoitated and agreed deal is no good so looks to not have negotiated in good faith do why would the other side renegotiate even if an extension is granted.

For me the eu want uk out before eu elections fast approaching. If they extend negotiating term i dont know what else will be avproblem
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
An extension was offered by ru prior to deal and rejected.

The issue is that one side has now decided the negoitated and agreed deal is no good so looks to not have negotiated in good faith do why would the other side renegotiate even if an extension is granted.

For me the eu want uk out before eu elections fast approaching. If they extend negotiating term i dont know what else will be avproblem
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You think the EU would reject a request for an A50 extension if a 2nd vote was a highly likely outcome? Come on......
 
Tobes said:
You think the EU would reject a request for an A50 extension if a 2nd vote was a highly likely outcome? Come on......
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I think they've already offered it so it may well occur but it's zombie land. The fantasy is that it opens ground to negotiate some better deal.

It's purely down to what happens in markets post dec 11. If its not too bad i fully expect it to be pushed out
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
I think they've already offered it so it may well occur but it's zombie land. The fantasy is that it opens ground to negotiate some better deal.

It's purely down to what happens in markets post dec 11. If its not too bad i fully expect it to be pushed out
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The Brexitards won’t care if the markets tank. It’ll only maybe swing some of the more moderate, but there’s enough swivel eyed loons to vote it down anyway.
 
Tobes said:
The Brexitards won’t care if the markets tank. It’ll only maybe swing some of the more moderate, but there’s enough swivel eyed loons to vote it down anyway.
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At this point there's not many looking to anything but their own power base.

Labour are clearly going for election, they want power.
Snp want to divide country. They'd never do anything but vote no
Dup have reneged on coalition deal... so they need dealing with. (Quite how thry are paid still in ni assembly i dint know)
Tory Brexiteers are split in 3 camps at least all seeking power.
Tory Remainers are vying for future place in party.


The vote on 11th imo is nothing to do with orderly withdrawal from eu and all about power
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
At this point there's not many looking to anything but their own power base.

Labour are clearly going for election, they want power.
Snp want to divide country. They'd never do anything but vote no
Dup have reneged on coalition deal... so they need dealing with. (Quite how thry are paid still in ni assembly i dint know)
Tory Brexiteers are split in 3 camps at least all seeking power.
Tory Remainers are vying for future place in party.


The vote on 11th imo is nothing to do with orderly withdrawal from eu and all about power
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This issue has gone well beyond party politics now. The Tories are never going to call a GE, so Labour should now act like a ****ing opposition and openly call for a 2nd vote like 86% of their members now reportedly want.

However, the vote on her deal is down to basic maths, and she can’t win it.
 
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Tobes said:
This issue has gone well beyond party politics now. The Tories are never going to call a GE, so Labour should now act like a ****ing opposition and openly call for a 2nd vote like 86% of their members now reportedly want.

However, the vote on her deal is down to basic maths, and she can’t win it.
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my point is that it's far far too late but this is all party and personal politics.

corbyn won't call for 2nd referendum until he is absolutely sure he can't get an election. he wants power and imo he would sign this deal if he had power.

gove has decided that he has to be the reasonable face of brexit to be the next leader.

Johnson has decided he had to be the voice of ardent brexit for him o have any chance.

they are all out for personal power and it was at least 6 no the ago.. and gmfpr Tories after may ****ed the last election that all his should have been decided.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579

Seems this chap in the European courts has said the UK can unilaterally cancel article 50.

this type of thing will probably pave the way to a new referendum with remain or withdrawal under May's deal as the options. (OR as tony blair wants remain or hardest of hard brexit)

the only thing that seems sure right now is that there will be a resounding no from parliament on 11 December as all self interests point to it. Hard brexiteers, remainers, labour party wannabes etc should all vote no. the small rump left to may will be interesting to note.
 
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