Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

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Muppetfinder General said:
Ah, the same stereotyping of the unemployed the ignorant right has always done.

Freedom of movement would be a lovely Lennonesque dream if it were about cultural diversity. But it isn't, it's about providing corporate multinationalism with a cheap labour pool to control wage demands and allow them to eke maximum profit, which as Marx explained, Capitalism demands. It used to be that if a union made demands considered unreasonable, the factory owners would threaten to move the factory abroad. Now they don't even need to pay to do that, because they can bring the workforce to the factory.

It beggars belief that so many left wingers have taken the side of the right over globalisation within such a short time. We were out on the streets against it less than 20 years ago. Now the left is sucking corporate dick in fear of being labelled racist. I have lovely Polish neighbours, who work in the supermarkets that wouldn't even give me an interview a few years ago when I was unemployed. I don't blame them for coming here to earn twice what they could at home. But the claim that the unemployed don't want to work is a plain, stinking, Mail-inspired lie, and shame on you for regurgitating it.

That bullshit TV programme about the recruitment agency was just more pauper porn. As anybody who's been unemployed knows, if you refuse a job, they stop your benefit. In 2012 I was sent to one of the biggest agencies sucking up millions in public money to do the DWP's dirty work, which has less than a 5% success rate, and in 13 weeks the agent I was assigned to found me 2 jobs to apply for. I was finding more every week by myself, including the job I eventually got.

I don't deny there are probably one or two weed dealers who don't really want 6am starts stacking shelves with tins of baked beans but I wanted to work, just like the thousands of others like me I saw at the Jobcentre. Who fits more conveniently into the pauper porn, me or the weed dealer? Let me give you a clue: no TV cameras came round our way.

Of course, without Latvians doing 12 backbreaking hours a day in a field for a pittance on an industialised farm run by a corporation, you might have to pay a bit more for your watery strawberries. Poor you.

How does this fit in with Trump though, MFG? you ask. Reasonable question.

'Populism' has become a dirty word, journalistic shorthand for ignorant, uneducated, uninformed, uncultured, racist, thuggish...choose your own adjective. What it actually means is "the political philolosophy of the People's Party. Grass roots democracy; working-class activism."

That is not Donald Trump but it is why he succeeded, or perhaps more accurately, where Clinton failed.

Brexit, Sanders, Syriza and other "populist" movements have happened for the same reasons, not because the world suddenly "lurched to the right." The right has simply identified it quicker. This is still something I worry the left is being slow to realise and accept.

We innocently bought the Clash's Sandinista album like we were funding the fight against Somoza and dictators everywhere. The Sandinista leaders were all published poets. One was also a priest. You can't say they were uneducated and uncultured neo-nazis. They were populists trying to effect change. Ditto Che Guevara in Cuba.

I've appealed to people to address the policies but to avoid stereotyping those who voted, because it's not that simple anymore. People who voted twice for Obama voted for Trump. That's not easy to explain; easier to just stereotype them all as redneck hillbillies in Lynyrd Skynyrd teeshrts. Jon Stewart, a lberal voice of reason in the US, said the same thing. You don't make muslims a monolith, they're individuals, but the same thing is being done with Trump voters.

I've voted Labour all my life. I'm not one of those who swings elections. The far right do not swing elections. The people who decide elections are the middle ground, the supposedly "reasonable" people.

The same people who resist change once hung posters of the Clash and Che Guevara on their walls. Now they long to maintain a status quo which has brought the human race to the edge of extinction, fearful of change, while labelling any demand for change as a desire to return to the past. Why? Because Emma Thompson said so? The Guardian's business editor, Larry Elliot, wrote many articles with facts on why he supported Leave. Its environment correspondent, George Monbiot, was also for Leave. Paul Wilson, its most left wing journalist, wanted Leave but wanted to wait for a Labour government to do it, which wasn't really an option because it was now or never. Meanwhile, the Guardian's showbiz and fashion correspondents were for Remain. Yet the same old cliches about Leave having no facts and being uninformed continued. I asked a few Remainers to explain the difference between the European Commission and the European Council to me. None of them could. So much for being informed.

But the EU protects our rights, MFG, I hear whispered from the back of the class. Does it really?

The same people who claim that also tut about the horror stories coming out of Amazon warehouses - a bloke had to camp in a tent outside because they were charging him for their own bus to work - and they protest the ability of multinationals to move profits around the EU to avoid paying tax. Yay, the workers!

The discrimination directive wasn't passed because EU leaders considered it "too expensive" and they're laws we can do better ourselves. They're right. The party which once gave us Section 28 introduced gay marriage. Meanwhile, some of those EU nations still mandatorily sterilise transgender people. Of course you don't mind being in a political institution with them but you don't want to live there, right? Maybe that's why so many people after the referendum declared they were moving to New Zealand (rather than Latvia), oblivious to the irony that New Zealand is not in the EU and we're about to become quite New Zealandish, once the EU stops trying to punish us like an abusive husband for wanting to leave.
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Very very well said that person <applause>
 
DirtyFrank said:
I wasn't generalizing so was ...actually I forgot; it's you.

You are not here for a discussion it's simply your annual angry pronouncements from on high about how thick we all are and then you'll **** off again.

You still have some fanboys on here who think your MO is cool. I just think it's a waste of both our time. So off you toddle and crawl back into that whiskey bottle that appears to make you such an angry ****.

You can sermonise on something again this time next year.
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So did he get anything right or was it all wrong?

Oh, and are the majority of Brexit voters ill-informed or just racist?
 
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Diego said:
So did he get anything right or was it all wrong?

Oh, and are the majority of Brexit voters ill-informed or just racist?
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most the latter :bandit:

the ill informed excuse canmot be used as all the brexit lies were proven false before the vote.

it's a polski skelp out vote :)

oh and while i am a roll.have you the 1500 quid ready to pay the eu?

if not get saving.

the next round will see UK pay for single market access as well just like all other trade partners.
 
Diego said:
So did he get anything right or was it all wrong?

Oh, and are the majority of Brexit voters ill-informed or just racist?
Click to expand...
It's a in-house fighting thing mate.

As I said...if he was actually interested in discussion I'd engage with topic further

He's not. There's been interactions I can count on one hand over 5 years... same every time.

At least with you there's a convo....you arse.
 
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DirtyFrank said:
It's a in-house fighting thing mate.

As I said...if he was actually interested in discussion I'd engage with topic further

He's not. There's been interactions I can count on one hand over 5 years... same every time.

At least with you there's a convo....you arse.
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Fair enough mate, didn't know it was "on going" <ok>
 
There is strong evidence that Trump has early stage Alzheimers. There is a family history of it, and he was seen during a recent speech holding a glass of water with both hands is apparently a sign of cognitive faculties starting to decline.
 
Garlic Klopp said:
There is strong evidence that Trump has early stage Alzheimers. There is a family history of it, and he was seen during a recent speech holding a glass of water with both hands is apparently a sign of cognitive faculties starting to decline.
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we saw that. who knows. if he had he'd probably be less trouble tbh.
 
US gives 200,000 Salvadoreans deadline to leave
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Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption Immigrants rallied outside Congress in December
The Trump administration has decided to cancel permits that allow nearly 200,000 people from El Salvador to live and work in the US.

They were granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) after earthquakes rocked the Central American country in 2001.

Salvadoreans now have until 2019 to leave or face deportation, unless they find a legal way to stay.

The Trump administration has already removed TPS protection from tens of thousands of Haitians and Nicaraguans.

Protections for Salvadoreans were set to expire on Monday, after nearly two decades of holding the humanitarian status due to the impact of the natural disaster that killed more than 1,000 people.

The latest announcement comes four months after the government said it planned to scrap an Obama-era scheme, Daca, that protected young undocumented immigrants, mostly Latin Americans, from deportation.

Lawmakers in Congress have been given until March to decide on the fate of the 800,000 so-called Dreamers affected by the Daca decision.

What does it mean for Salvadoreans in US?
Their protection will not be terminated until 9 September 2019 "to allow for an orderly transition", the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement announcing the decision on Monday.

You must log in or register to see images


Media captionWhat is temporary protected status - and why is El Salvador losing it?
"The original conditions caused by the 2001 earthquakes no longer exist," the agency said.

"Thus, under the applicable statute, the current TPS designation must be terminated."

Who will be most affected?
The move will end the protected status of nearly 200,000 Salvadoreans living across America, forcing them to face possible deportation or separation from their families.

It also raises questions about the future of about 270,000 of their children who were born in the US, and who are also at risk of deportation.

Salvadoreans with Temporary Protected Status are established in large numbers in Los Angeles, Houston and New York.

According to the Center for Migration Studies, they represent more than 135,000 households across the country, with a quarter of them home-owners:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42613178
 
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Jigsawklopp said:
US gives 200,000 Salvadoreans deadline to leave US
You must log in or register to see images
Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption Immigrants rallied outside Congress in December
The Trump administration has decided to cancel permits that allow nearly 200,000 people from El Salvador to live and work in the US.

They were granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS) after earthquakes rocked the Central American country in 2001.

Salvadoreans now have until 2019 to leave or face deportation, unless they find a legal way to stay.

The Trump administration has already removed TPS protection from tens of thousands of Haitians and Nicaraguans.

Protections for Salvadoreans were set to expire on Monday, after nearly two decades of holding the humanitarian status due to the impact of the natural disaster that killed more than 1,000 people.

The latest announcement comes four months after the government said it planned to scrap an Obama-era scheme, Daca, that protected young undocumented immigrants, mostly Latin Americans, from deportation.

Lawmakers in Congress have been given until March to decide on the fate of the 800,000 so-called Dreamers affected by the Daca decision.

What does it mean for Salvadoreans in US?
Their protection will not be terminated until 9 September 2019 "to allow for an orderly transition", the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement announcing the decision on Monday.

You must log in or register to see images


Media captionWhat is temporary protected status - and why is El Salvador losing it?
"The original conditions caused by the 2001 earthquakes no longer exist," the agency said.

"Thus, under the applicable statute, the current TPS designation must be terminated."

Who will be most affected?
The move will end the protected status of nearly 200,000 Salvadoreans living across America, forcing them to face possible deportation or separation from their families.

It also raises questions about the future of about 270,000 of their children who were born in the US, and who are also at risk of deportation.

Salvadoreans with Temporary Protected Status are established in large numbers in Los Angeles, Houston and New York.

According to the Center for Migration Studies, they represent more than 135,000 households across the country, with a quarter of them home-owners:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42613178
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he really fears Hispanics and seems to want to deport about 5 or 10million people.

he's about one step away from the Burmese. if he thought he could imo trump would order people killed to get them out.

he has to me worst most dangerous democratically elected person of modern age times (not including pre computer era Hitler who was elected in 1920s)
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
he really fears Hispanics and seems to want to deport about 5 or 10million people.

he's about one step away from the Burmese. if he thought he could imo trump would order people killed to get them out.

he has to me worst most dangerous democratically elected person of modern age times (not including pre computer era Hitler who was elected in 1920s)
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The effect the loss of cheap labour/people willing to do low paid jobs will have an impact on US economy.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
well a Nazi would just enslave someone then to do those jobs wouldn't he.

the sooner this guy is fine the better. it's the darkest time in us history outside of pre civil war.
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I am mistified to how he was elected. Can’t see him doing a full term.
 
Whoah...plenty of boos for Trump at the championship game as he walks out and straight after the national anthem!

In Georgia, with Alabama and Georgia supporters!

Plenty of cheers and USA USA USA but you couldn't miss the significant boos.
 
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