Off Topic Trevor Sinclair

[Oliver's Army]

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[Pure River Slut]

Why do you assume that people who are patriotic or pro-Monarchy haven't applied critical thought?
I have set out why I think a constitutional monarchy is better than an elected head of state on these boards several times. My conclusion is the result of critical thought.
Here's some critical thinking for you: why is disliking someone on the basis of their class (not that I believe the class system exists) any different to disliking someone on the basis of their race? Its still bigotry- it's still seeking to make divisions between people on the basis of something they have no control over.

I anticipate that your response will reference wealth but I'm not talking about your personal view, I'm trying to examine attitudes to monarchy and 'the upper classes' in general.

Btw I respect your institutional reasons rather than just the happy clapping ‘long live the king’ stuff. I could live with that if we stopped funding them and took back the perks and the cash in the bank used them for the benefit of all or had an ‘opt out’ on paying for it all. I’m not an ‘off with their heads’ man - they were just born (which is also why it’s wrong) just ‘down with the monarchy’.

 

[The Norton Cat]

You and others imply making left wing views are simply because they are left wing.,I’m following no script and don’t yearn for old Russia. Of course you can think critically and want the royals but also 15 minutes of TV and you’re witnessing love the royals kind control. Some on here go on like Nicholas Witchell tbh. What if your critical thinking gets you to the point where the next man appears, someone I don’t respect but won’t go into detail at this point, but to me the inherited follow on and the fact we have no choice or say over at this point I find incredibly frustrating.

I'm not sure what you're getting at really. I have no problem with left wing views. Some aspects of left wing politics I agree wholeheartedly with. I do, however, feel that there are large elements of left wing rhetoric that don't examine their subjects in particular depth and are deeply hypocritical, inasmuch as they carry just as many prejudices as right wing politics.

I'm simply trying to point out that it's inaccurate, and prejudiced, to say that monarchists or patriots haven't applied critical thought.

Why do you imply anyone criticising the monarchy is just being a lefty. My objection is this. That those making decisions over us and those in positions of power and control are predominantly from outside of the majority and where wealth, especially the access to private schools and currently accessing university gives them an infuse advantage to retain wealth. There are exceptions in all things - Ton Benn being a good example, even Blair to an extent with their leaning towards redistribution, but if democracy is to be effective people need to have more executive power. The experiences of someone help shape decisions.

The Queen/King doesn't make decisions about us. They are simply a symbolic, apolitical head of state. I'm not sure why you think that attending university is such a bad thing. You don't have to be wealthy or aristocratic to attend. I would have thought that having a good education made you more suitable for a role in government. Nor does it prevent you having life experiences- in fact, I would have said that it allowed you to meet and understand people from a huge range of backgrounds, which is surely desirable for a prospective MP.

 

[Chunksafc]

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Amazing how the prospect of losing your income can affect what you tweet......

 

[Nacho]

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Sticking to his guns then.

 

[Pure River Slut]

I'm not sure what you're getting at really. I have no problem with left wing views. Some aspects of left wing politics I agree wholeheartedly with. I do, however, feel that there are large elements of left wing rhetoric that don't examine their subjects in particular depth and are deeply hypocritical, inasmuch as they carry just as many prejudices as right wing politics.

I'm simply trying to point out that it's inaccurate, and prejudiced, to say that monarchists or patriots haven't applied critical thought.

The Queen/King doesn't make decisions about us. They are simply a symbolic, apolitical head of state. I'm not sure why you think that attending university is such a bad thing. You don't have to be wealthy or aristocratic to attend. I would have thought that having a good education made you more suitable for a role in government. Nor does it prevent you having life experiences- in fact, I would have said that it allowed you to meet and understand people from a huge range of backgrounds, which is surely desirable for a prospective MP.

I don’t think attending university is a bad thing but it is a fact ie I’ve been told it that working class kids won’t be going because they run up debt and that private schools education fuelled by wealth and privilege leads to the top universities leads to more privilege and power. The system should be changed right now and wealth should be removed from those who have excesses including the 21m a year income Duchy of Cornwall.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Btw I respect your institutional reasons rather than just the happy clapping ‘long live the king’ stuff. I could live with that if we stopped funding them and took back the perks and the cash in the bank used them for the benefit of all or had an ‘opt out’ on paying for it all. I’m not an ‘off with their heads’ man - they were just born (which is also why it’s wrong) just ‘down with the monarchy’.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that a long of the hangers on should be financially removed from the teat.
On the other hand, I think the ceremonial stuff has an important part to play in national identity and culture. In the same way that I wouldn't knock down a Grade I listed building.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Don't get me wrong, I do think that a long of the hangers on should be financially removed from the teat.
On the other hand, I think the ceremonial stuff has an important part to play in national identity and culture. In the same way that I wouldn't knock down a Grade I listed building.

The big thing I want is an opt out. From the ‘mourning’ because I don’t know the woman- not saying I don’t respect those who do and care- but it would be dishonest to say I’m in mourning and I think life should go on not this semi lockdown situation and particularly an opt out from paying anything towards it and then I think we need to have a conversation about people like the Duke of Westminster and the Duchy of Cornwall and how their ownership of land chips in to our collective wealth or for me how it all went to charity if people don’t want it to go to the government.

 

[Oliver's Army]

Sticking to his guns then.

Looks like it doesn't it. Hope they still sack the ****er.

 

[Saf]

Cant disagree with that tbh

Just keep giving him attention and he'll be alright. He craves it.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I don’t think attending university is a bad thing but it is a fact ie I’ve been told it that working class kids won’t be going because they run up debt and that private schools education fuelled by wealth and privilege leads to the top universities leads to more privilege and power. The system should be changed right now and wealth should be removed from those who have excesses including the 21m a year income Duchy of Cornwall.

I agree that attendance at university should be on the basis of ability. I also agree that the student loans system is wrong and that the old grants system was a more equitable method of funding higher education.
However, I am also aware, i.e. my wife's a teacher, that there is a huge disparity in attitudes towards, and engagement with, education between 'lower class' families and more affluent families. You're never going to achieve anything if, from an early age, no one in your family places any value on education. Changing those attitudes is one of the societal changes that I've talked about in the past.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Looks like it doesn't it. Hope they still sack the ****er.

I’d be surprised if he isn’t sacked. Probably deserves to be, but I think his apology is fair. Retains his beliefs but accepts its inappropriateness.

 

[Saf]

I don’t think attending university is a bad thing but it is a fact ie I’ve been told it that working class kids won’t be going because they run up debt and that private schools education fuelled by wealth and privilege leads to the top universities leads to more privilege and power. The system should be changed right now and wealth should be removed from those who have excesses including the 21m a year income Duchy of Cornwall.

My daughter is just starting out at university. No doubt you have been full of excuses all your life. You've now lived until your 51 and achieved absolutely **** all because of your attitude.

Now, you spend all your days lashing out at anybody who hasn't ended up a failure with **** all... Like yourself. That's what hurts and that's where your anger comes from.

 

[Pure River Slut]

I agree that attendance at university should be on the basis of ability. I also agree that the student loans system is wrong and that the old grants system was a more equitable method of funding higher education.
However, I am also aware, i.e. my wife's a teacher, that there is a huge disparity in attitudes towards, and engagement with, education between 'lower class' families and more affluent families. You're never going to achieve anything if, from an early age, no one in your family places any value on education. Changing those attitudes is one of the societal changes that I've talked about in the past.

Yes but there are also a lot of exceptions to that. I run programmes around having a voice - all young people led their ideas their words about the world they live in and they make a manifesto. They amend the system better then you I or the government would tbh with our blinkered adult thinking. Yep girls a coupe of month back- incredibly bright energetic switched on, council estate girls family members in prison, academically bright - capable of uni - the teachers said so - feisty rule breakers but brilliant. Neither are schooling Uni because they will have to bring money into the family to ‘help mum’. ‘Why would I rack up 30grand of debt when I could help pay my mums bills’. I’d rather have these two running the country than the eton boys club. They get life. It maybe tells you why I get so angry with it all. It all ****ing stinks and needs changing.

 

[vic9]

The big thing I want is an opt out. From the ‘mourning’ because I don’t know the woman- not saying I don’t respect those who do and care- but it would be dishonest to say I’m in mourning and I think life should go on not this semi lockdown situation and particularly an opt out from paying anything towards it and then I think we need to have a conversation about people like the Duke of Westminster and the Duchy of Cornwall and how their ownership of land chips in to our collective wealth or for me how it all went to charity if people don’t want it to go to the government.

So you want to “opt out “to your personal picks of the tax system, that’s a very rocky,dangerous road to take and narrow minded view surely?

 

[Chunksafc]

Regarding university, it doesn't help that employers place so much emphasis on the qualifications. My soon to be ex company actively put degree qualifications over "life" qualifications.

In construction (my area) there is a huge skills shortage of tradesman, supervision and management. Time served people are getting to retirement and a lot of companies would rather employ someone with a degree and no experience than promote or train up.

 

[Pure River Slut]

My daughter is just starting out at university. No doubt you have been full of excuses all your life. You've now lived until your 51 and achieved absolutely **** all because of your attitude.

Now, you spend all your days lashing out at anybody who hasn't ended up a failure with **** all... Like yourself. That's what hurts and that's where your anger comes from.

Haha what a prick you are. That just shows what a judgmental little menace you are I’ve got two degrees - I did a course - PE - then went back to do a professional qualification in youth justice oh and a diploma in systems thinking, and level 5 training in philosophical enquiry and another in restorative practice. So you carry on being an absolute weapon.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Regarding university, it doesn't help that employers place so much emphasis on the qualifications. My soon to be ex company actively put degree qualifications over "life" qualifications.

In construction (my area) there is a huge skills shortage of tradesman, supervision and management. Time served people are getting to retirement and a lot of companies would rather employed someone with a degree and no experience than promote or train up.

That’s also true. You should be able to get to degree level as you work to me. The Germans have a better system. Many of the top qualified top earners went down a non academic industrial route with associated qualifications as they develop.

 

[Saf]

Haha what a prick you are. That just shows what a judgmental little menace you are I’ve got two degrees - I did a course - PE - then went back to do a professional qualification in youth justice oh and a diploma in systems thinking, and level 5 training in philosophical enquiry and another in restorative practice. So you carry on being an absolute weapon.

Of course you have. That's why you're so bitter with the world.

 

[LAMackem]

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Panic button pressed. Damage limitation time……….