I agree with Alfie 're Martin's aerial ability. It was emphasised against Ipswich at Carrow Road for their goal. He should have won the header fit virtually did not jump in challenging. He definitely lacks spring.
Transfer thread Summer 2015
- Thread starter Walsh.i.am
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I also find it strange that all of our last four managers have felt that Martin is a quality CB and yet there are still those niggling about this. Rob's point about PL strikers being more mobile than physical is also spot on, and Martin's ability to read the the threats coming towards him is another advantage.
Of the current 25 man squad, the possible leavers would be Turner, Miquel (probably on loan), O'Neil, Lafferty(loan), and RvW. If Turner leaves, I'd like to see him replaced by a left-sided CB who can also cover at LB so that Miquel (who can cover both) can go on loan to gain experience. Miquel's place could then be taken by an AM/2nd striker. Both Lafferty and Grabban can play effectively on the left or right of a 4-2-3-1, so I am less concerned about additions there, especially as Redmond and Johnson look likely to start most games and Dorrans can play on the left if there's a need, not to mention Josh.
If RvW leaves, then I'd go for another DM (unless AN feels that Thompson is OK for that), or a LB/WB option to compete with Olsson. The final question is whether we need a 3rd keeper, as 1950 suggests. It's certainly going to be interesting.
Of the current 25 man squad, the possible leavers would be Turner, Miquel (probably on loan), O'Neil, Lafferty(loan), and RvW. If Turner leaves, I'd like to see him replaced by a left-sided CB who can also cover at LB so that Miquel (who can cover both) can go on loan to gain experience. Miquel's place could then be taken by an AM/2nd striker. Both Lafferty and Grabban can play effectively on the left or right of a 4-2-3-1, so I am less concerned about additions there, especially as Redmond and Johnson look likely to start most games and Dorrans can play on the left if there's a need, not to mention Josh.
If RvW leaves, then I'd go for another DM (unless AN feels that Thompson is OK for that), or a LB/WB option to compete with Olsson. The final question is whether we need a 3rd keeper, as 1950 suggests. It's certainly going to be interesting.
Makes sense to me - Bassong tends to go a bit Viera sometimes and it brings the worst out in me. Occasionally he plays an incredible ball out of our defence which leads to a goal, but more often than not I feel if he dithers in the PL he'll be punished hard. A side of his game AN will probably stamp out though. The jury's out on Martin for me - sentimentally I have bags of time for him and am happier for him to maraud forward than Bassong, as he does bang in the odd goal. I think he and Whits would be better challenging for RB and bring in a new CB, though Bennet is due a step up?
Spot on GE and that is my main concern. It's going to be an interesting couple of months!!!!
J
JKCanary
Guest
Incidentally, according to WhoScored, the 'aerial duels' stats are as follows:
Bassong (including for Watford)
Attempted = 190
% 'won = 67.4
Martin
Attempted = 214
% won = 58.9
NB: I'm assuming that includes 'attacking aerial duels' too though.
Bassong (including for Watford)
Attempted = 190
% 'won = 67.4
Martin
Attempted = 214
% won = 58.9
NB: I'm assuming that includes 'attacking aerial duels' too though.
J
JKCanary
Guest
Bassong has obviously been brilliant the last few months, but I completely agree with the above.
That showboating back-heeled clearance on Monday
if Vossen's screamer had gone in it could have been a very different game and Bassong would have been partly responsible tbh.
I would quite like Turner to stay and for the manager to play him with Bassong when we come up against a more physical side and then Martin normally. I know that's not received wisdom because they say you should keep a settled back four, but sometimes I wonder whether the Paul Lambert approach of nobody knows the starting line up gives you an edge! Suspect Turner wants consistently first team football though.
That showboating back-heeled clearance on Monday
if Vossen's screamer had gone in it could have been a very different game and Bassong would have been partly responsible tbh.I would quite like Turner to stay and for the manager to play him with Bassong when we come up against a more physical side and then Martin normally. I know that's not received wisdom because they say you should keep a settled back four, but sometimes I wonder whether the Paul Lambert approach of nobody knows the starting line up gives you an edge! Suspect Turner wants consistently first team football though.
This is definitely Martin's weakness. It would be interesting to know what percentage won is average for CBs in the Championship/Prem and what the best player has
Who is Thompson? Not the young lad we bought from, and loaned back to Swindon, surely?
J
JKCanary
Guest
Can't help with an overall average right now, but here's some key CB performers as comparison:
Bassong (including for Watford)
Attempted = 190
% 'won = 67.4
Martin
Attempted = 214
% won = 58.9
Berra
Attempted = 326
% 'won = 65.6
Ayala
Attempted = 229
% 'won = 66.4
Dunk
Attempted = 217
% 'won = 65.4
Tarkowski
Attempted = 168
% 'won = 67.3
I think that with all the money the club has just got it would be silly not to got out and spend on quality not quantity and splash the cash on a top centre half.
That's great, thanks JK.
I think that clearly shows that Bassong is well up there with the best CBs when it comes to challenging for headers, and that when it comes to being a top performer you need to be up in the winning 2/3s mark. Martin is quite clearly short of that.
So I suppose that explains exactly why there's a feeling of unease about him, but I think if he's suitably protected when it comes to us against a big dominant CB, otherwise his skills stand us in really good stead IMO
I certainly don't think we need a replacement starting CB at this stage. Spend big on someone quite young with a bit of class who could be eased into the squad my view
I think that clearly shows that Bassong is well up there with the best CBs when it comes to challenging for headers, and that when it comes to being a top performer you need to be up in the winning 2/3s mark. Martin is quite clearly short of that.
So I suppose that explains exactly why there's a feeling of unease about him, but I think if he's suitably protected when it comes to us against a big dominant CB, otherwise his skills stand us in really good stead IMO
I certainly don't think we need a replacement starting CB at this stage. Spend big on someone quite young with a bit of class who could be eased into the squad my view
Useful stats, JK, but that would probably amount to only a difference of 1 or 2 headers in a game. In the PL, probably less as through balls are a greater threat and mobility and reading the game count for more. Rob could have a point about playing Turner or Bennett against more physical attacks though.
J
JKCanary
Guest
I think that's a key point, Rob. Martin had a big, aerially-dominant CB next to him in Bassong. I'm guessing (and it is a guess without looking into it), that the CB partners of Berra, Ayala, Dunk and Tarkowski probably had slightly poorer '% won' ratings too.
J
JKCanary
Guest
V good point, that would be interesting to know too
Ha. I should probably do SOME actual work today!
I agree that it's unlikely that Thompson will play that much this year, but with 8 fewer games and few mid-week games, Tettey should be available for most games and Dorrans and O'Neil offer other DM options if needed. If another DM does come in though, it'll probably be at the expense of O'Neil.
To be fair, Bassong did well to get something on the cross, as it was played in behind him as he was running back to goal. If he hadn't of back-heeled it, the ball was running straight to Adomah in the penalty area.Bassong has obviously been brilliant the last few months, but I completely agree with the above.
That showboating back-heeled clearance on Monday
I would quite like Turner to stay and for the manager to play him with Bassong when we come up against a more physical side and then Martin normally. I know that's not received wisdom because they say you should keep a settled back four, but sometimes I wonder whether the Paul Lambert approach of nobody knows the starting line up gives you an edge! Suspect Turner wants consistently first team football though.
Bassong has obviously been brilliant the last few months, but I completely agree with the above.
That showboating back-heeled clearance on Monday
I would quite like Turner to stay and for the manager to play him with Bassong when we come up against a more physical side and then Martin normally. I know that's not received wisdom because they say you should keep a settled back four, but sometimes I wonder whether the Paul Lambert approach of nobody knows the starting line up gives you an edge! Suspect Turner wants consistently first team football though.
My view of that is because of his momentum it would of been difficult to anything different. I didn't see it as show boating.
We need a CB though.
I still feel like even though at the time he wasn't as good as he is now, we should have kept ayala as he has gone on to show his qualitys and maybe going into the prem we would have another quality CB.