I don't know, I'm a bit confused now and just posting anything that might mean I'm right.
Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread
- Thread starter Bozz
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I don't know, I'm a bit confused now and just posting anything that might mean I'm right.
- May 22, 2011
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well that is true to some extent. In the past skertl had a Russian league title medla.
Mingolet - second division title
Clyne - not a thing
Matip German cup
Lovren croatian league and 2 cups, french cup
Milner. english league x 2, league cup, fa cup
henderson league cup with us
Wijnaldum. dutch league and cup
Lallana: football league trophy.
coutinho: italian cup, brazilian 2nd div title, underage brazilain world cup winner. (u20s)
fimrino - not a thing
Mane austrian league and cup
now... thats not exactly all big time is it.... but players can only be winners where they were and come from. also all of our players now have 2 loaser medals to remember what losing feels like
In short not every player can win things, if they don't come form a top team they won't have anything.... but coutinho for example.. did he REALLY win those medals or sit watching others do it mostly.
For me look at wijnaldum. captain of PSV as they won a double. you'd think he would be made of stern stuff... yet his away record is awful here. Thats unusual.
We were talking about last seasons europa league final and cup finals though. Half that team you listed weren't here and those that were hasnt won much either.
No you are right lol.
But that was my point. They was known players at the time and a club would have eventually taken a chance on them except maybe alonso.
Those players had a point to prove and wasn't chasing the money ie Draxler.
ok so... fair enough
last year sturrdige played the finals not mane right? he's got a rem winners medal, fa cup and championship league (again as a bench warmer)
toure played. he's got a **** tonne of medals.
moreno played and won the thing with seville previously
so..... is that not much?
Good a reason as any to get rid of sturridge.
He wants the medals and pay with little effort.
When he has to put in effort he suddenly is not fit to play many games
It's a good job to have if you can get it I suppose
- May 22, 2011
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Fair enough. So we've actually lost and replaced players that had won stuff with players that haven't won as much lol.
Either way, we don't have any big characters, winners, leaders. That's the biggest issue when it comes to big games. Look at Istanbul, Carra, hyypia, hamann, Gerrard. Taking away their quality as players their leadership qualities drove that team on
Still pissed we didn't give hyypia a longer contract.
Guy oozed classed and could have been our Maldini ffs grrrr!!!!
Good debate.
As much as we want players to stay for years and earn their way to the top - it's just not feasible. Players want big wages and their pay days.
I'm not even talking about Can anymore - we have to offer lucrative deals to players if we want to attract them. And this isn't a dig but players like Lallana and Milner are happy to lap up over £100k a week because they know this is the biggest deal/club they're likely to get.
Unless we get lucky, the players we want will have other suitors. More competition = bigger incentives.
As much as we want players to stay for years and earn their way to the top - it's just not feasible. Players want big wages and their pay days.
I'm not even talking about Can anymore - we have to offer lucrative deals to players if we want to attract them. And this isn't a dig but players like Lallana and Milner are happy to lap up over £100k a week because they know this is the biggest deal/club they're likely to get.
Unless we get lucky, the players we want will have other suitors. More competition = bigger incentives.
With regards to leaders, fans really don't like players with personality. The hard working, head down type is far more likeable.
Leaders have personality and take risks. Our players don't take risks and when they do, fans complain they've given the ball away.
Sturridge is prime example - he may not be a captain but this guy takes risks and he's not afraid to keep making them.
Leaders have personality and take risks. Our players don't take risks and when they do, fans complain they've given the ball away.
Sturridge is prime example - he may not be a captain but this guy takes risks and he's not afraid to keep making them.
He should risk running about a bit more.
Thats why we need to atract players with the right attitude Jimmy.
Easier said than done maybe lol.
But do they want 10yr of good money at a club where they might do something or join a club where they will go down in history?
Wums yes it's a history lesson, but is that anyou diferent than utd and the youngsters or arsenals invincibles or chelsea going whole season with their record breaking season or plucky leicester who wasaid tipped for relegation doing the unthinkable.
Surely better to play for a club where go down in history and on record books for ever than say sturridge who has the records and pay for doing nothing?
- May 22, 2011
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Dont think that's true at all.
Ask everyone here and they much prefer someone who will stand up to a challenge drag players along, show some courage in a game.
Sturridge isn't a leader. He's as far from a leader as you can get! He takes risks but that's not what being a leader is about. It's about inspiring others, organising, showing real commitment. Players like Gerrard, hyypia and Suarez lead by example.
giving the ball away has nothing to do with it either.
What youre talking about is trying to be creative and a risk taker to break down teams. We do lack that but we lack players when at 1-0 down can drag a team back to perform or organise a team on the pitch to help secure a 1-0 win in a horrible game.
Yes true - but the underlying point is that he's fearless which is a massive part of leadership. And fans do prefer players who simply keep the ball and don't make mistakes.
There are different types of leaderships/characteristics:
Players who are fearless
Players who organise
Players who fight
Players who take responsibility
I agree that we do lack this across the pitch
And sorry to bring this back to Can but he did exactly that against Burnley. He was playing in DM, then CB and got forward to score the winning goal. Was that not good leadership?
This...look who we gave long term contracts with wage bumps..maybe not huge in comparison to other clubs but we seem to be rewarding half a good season..or worse a player because he pops his head up above the mediocrity of the squad for a year.
Name a player since the likes of Gerrard and Suarez that got a wage bump and long term contract that then went on the next year to prove it's worth?
Then the guy that replaces him and has a half decent year starts to argue that HE should have the same wages...rinse repeat.
Personally I don't give a stuff what we pay a player as it's not my money in that sense. But our reward system for existing players versus what we will offer to attract is flawed.
We've ended up with a cycle of players on 100k+ 5 year contracts who plateau or are inconsistent.
If we are going to do this "develop the young talent thing" then make it big yearly bonuses..you stay on your 50-70k but if you do x or the team does y we give you the equivalent of your 100k a week at the end of the year...but just for that year.
Do it 2-3 years in a row? Then we'll give you the higher starting basic.
Other wise start offering competitive salaries to players that can actually get us competing.
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- May 22, 2011
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Hes not fearless. He's scared to play with any kind of minor knock. Can and Hendo have been playing all year wth injuries...
That's not the fearless I was referring to. I'm on about taking risks on the ball.
No because he shouldn't have been playing CB he had just dropped too deep because he didn't have the courage to push up and win the ball high for the whole of the first half, he sorted that after halftime but I don't think his performance was anything to be proud of, he did ok in the end and that's it.
Was that Can's decision or Klopp's?
We can criticise Can for a lot of things but no one can question his courage. This guy is the only one in our midfield that takes responsibility.