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[Smirnoffpriest]

Chris Sutton was pretty scathing about Arsenal in relation to the Wilshere deal on BBC Live last night - here's some of the things he had to say -

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Chris Sutton

Ex-Norwich striker speaks to BBC Sport

Posted at18:2131 Aug
With the Jack Wilshere deal, he is still good enough to have a place in the Arsenal team. He is going to Bournemouth to get games. It does not send out a particularly good message.

I am disappointed, Wilshere should not be going to the likes of Bournemouth. That is a strange one.

It is absolutely crazy, a fit Wilshere would command a place in the Gunners team. If they are serious about winning trophies then he would be a key man.

Bournemouth is a big step down, I just do not get this loan deal at all.


AND

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Chris Sutton

Ex-Chelsea striker on Radio 5 live

Posted at22:2431 Aug
Jack Wilshere is a brilliant singing for Bournemouth but I think Arsenal are a joke, He should have stayed, he is good enough to get in Arsenal's team, Why not just sell him? Why put him out on loan?

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

Personally i think sutton is a joke if a) he can't see that Wilshere isn't fully fit and hasn't been for years, and needs gametime to get to full fitness- something he won't get at Arsenal. And b) he isn't close to getting into our starting x11 on current form, let alone being the critical star who is going to propel us to success!

 

[TheBear]

Chris Sutton was pretty scathing about Arsenal in relation to the Wilshere deal on BBC Live last night - here's some of the things he had to say -

You must log in or register to see images

Chris Sutton

Ex-Norwich striker speaks to BBC Sport

Posted at18:2131 Aug
With the Jack Wilshere deal, he is still good enough to have a place in the Arsenal team. He is going to Bournemouth to get games. It does not send out a particularly good message.

I am disappointed, Wilshere should not be going to the likes of Bournemouth. That is a strange one.

It is absolutely crazy, a fit Wilshere would command a place in the Gunners team. If they are serious about winning trophies then he would be a key man.

Bournemouth is a big step down, I just do not get this loan deal at all.


AND

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Chris Sutton

Ex-Chelsea striker on Radio 5 live

Posted at22:2431 Aug
Jack Wilshere is a brilliant singing for Bournemouth but I think Arsenal are a joke, He should have stayed, he is good enough to get in Arsenal's team, Why not just sell him? Why put him out on loan?

It's tricky Im a big Wilshere fan, the guy is massively under-rated but we have a very competitive midfield. For me Wilshere is every bit as good as Elneny and Ramsey but Carzorla and Ozil are certainly ahead of him.

He needs game time to get match sharpness. If we want to win the league this year we cant really afford to field any not-fully sharp players.

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

It's tricky Im a big Wilshere fan, the guy is massively under-rated but we have a very competitive midfield. For me Wilshere is every bit as good as Elneny and Ramsey but Carzorla and Ozil are certainly ahead of him.

He needs game time to get match sharpness. If we want to win the league this year we cant really afford to field any not-fully sharp players.

The only way he's going to get match sharpness and fitness back is by playing regularly and we can't offer him that - he's definitely behind Ramsey and Elneny at the minute, as he hasn't been fully fit or on form while the others have been. So a loan move is the most sensible option for all parties.

 

[lazarus20000]

What we also need to consider is who's influenced Wilshere to go to said clubs.

Sky were saying that Roma already have 3 or 4 midfielders in the positions that Jack would play, so there's less of a chance of him playing regular football.

Meanwhile, one of Jack's closest academy friends (Benik Afobe) is at Bournemouth and has been a factor in convincing Jack to move there. Additionally, he would walk straight into their midfield. Besides, if the Arsenal board are genuinely considering Eddie Howe as a successor to Wenger, then it will be interesting to see how he would do with one of his potential managers for the future.

Wherever he goes, any club he joins will be getting a very tidy midfielder, providing he can stay fit.

Rumors have it that 22 clubs were interested in signing him!

He

Personally i think sutton is a joke if a) he can't see that Wilshere isn't fully fit and hasn't been for years, and needs gametime to get to full fitness- something he won't get at Arsenal. And b) he isn't close to getting into our starting x11 on current form, let alone being the critical star who is going to propel us to success!

I agree, Sutton is full of bull. What is he basing it on, his supposed talent? He's 24 and still hasn't had a notable season or able to command a place in our starting 11. Only reason he's blazing lyrical about Wilshere is because he's English and has been hyped to the max.

We will see how good Wilshere really is when he plays for Bournemouth. I'm hoping he gets at least 20-25 full games with them to prove his worth. My guess he'll be decent but not very spectacular.

There will be NO hiding for Wilshere this season and if he doesn't do the business for Bournemouth, he'll be another ex Arsenal youth player shipped off to a lower PL/Championship side.

 

[TheBear]

I agree, Sutton is full of bull. What is he basing it on, his supposed talent? He's 24 and still hasn't had a notable season or able to command a place in our starting 11. Only reason he's blazing lyrical about Wilshere is because he's English and has been hyped to the max.

We will see how good Wilshere really is when he plays for Bournemouth. I'm hoping he gets at least 20-25 full games with them to prove his worth. My guess he'll be decent but not very spectacular.

There will be NO hiding for Wilshere this season and if he doesn't do the business for Bournemouth, he'll be another ex Arsenal youth player shipped off to a lower PL/Championship side.

It's not really fair though. Lets be honest it took Koscielny a run of well over 40-50 games for us to start to show us how good he really is.

I read an article recently that stated Wilshere has played less than 25% of our games over the last 5 years. He's barely managed more than 20 games in a row. For me Wilshere gets more criticism than he deserves because he is English and was much hyped as a teenager.

It's funny because I also remember many arguments on the old BBC606 about Robin Van Persie. Many Arsenal fans where fed up with his constant injuries and whenever he came back into the side he got called 'over-rated'. The truth is he just wasn't fully fit.(we saw what he could do once he overcame these injury issues) The same applies for Wilshere.

 

[lazarus20000]

It's not really fair though. Lets be honest it took Koscielny a run of well over 40-50 games for us to start to show us how good he really is.

I read an article recently that stated Wilshere has played less than 25% of our games over the last 5 years. He's barely managed more than 20 games in a row. For me Wilshere gets more criticism than he deserves because he is English and was much hyped as a teenager.

It's funny because I also remember many arguments on the old BBC606 about Robin Van Persie. Many Arsenal fans where fed up with his constant injuries and whenever he came back into the side he got called 'over-rated'. The truth is he just wasn't fully fit.(we saw what he could do once he overcame these injury issues) The same applies for Wilshere.

People got annoyed with RVP due to his injuries but he genuinely had serious quality. Wilshere has some quality but no where near the amount that the media have made out. Now I know what Guardiola meant about Wilshere "Wilshere is a top player. He is an excellent player, not just Arsenal, but also for the national team. [But] he is lucky because we have many players in the second team like him but he plays because there is no pressure at his club to win titles." That was when he was 19. He's now 24 and no better than he was then. What makes Guardiola's comment even more poignant is that Wenger is under pressure to win a title and ended up loaning Wilshere instead of persevering. If he was good enough Wenger would keep him and play him, the reality he isn't and is way down the pecking order.

 

[TheBear]

People got annoyed with RVP due to his injuries but he genuinely had serious quality. Wilshere has some quality but no where near the amount that the media have made out. Now I know what Guardiola meant about Wilshere "Wilshere is a top player. He is an excellent player, not just Arsenal, but also for the national team. [But] he is lucky because we have many players in the second team like him but he plays because there is no pressure at his club to win titles." That was when he was 19. He's now 24 and no better than he was then. What makes Guardiola's comment even more poignant is that Wenger is under pressure to win a title and ended up loaning Wilshere instead of persevering. If he was good enough Wenger would keep him and play him, the reality he isn't and is way down the pecking order.

Don't really agree.
1. Wilshere was hyped soo young because he was always technically superb. He has come back into the side (after injury) multiple times and looked good. But he is FAR better than he has shown. He just needs an extended run without injuries to really show what he is made of.
2.. We cant really trust Wenger's judgement on this. I'lll use the Joel Campbell example again but the guy played out of his skin last Season. Looked great, he's hardworking energetic and barely put a foot wrong. Chamberlain was terrible. Yet who do we have starting for us in the league and who is on out loan?

 

[PINKIE]

Wilshere is a top quality talent. He has just been injured too much. Going out on loan is a brilliant option for him because he will get games and experience. He's only 24 and some people (not on here) are talking like he's in last chance saloon ! He still has the bulk of his career ahead of him and I firmly believe he will be a big success for Arsenal.

 

[lazarus20000]

Don't really agree.
1. Wilshere was hyped soo young because he was always technically superb. He has come back into the side (after injury) multiple times and looked good. But he is FAR better than he has shown. He just needs an extended run without injuries to really show what he is made of.
2.. We cant really trust Wenger's judgement on this. I'lll use the Joel Campbell example again but the guy played out of his skin last Season. Looked great, he's hardworking energetic and barely put a foot wrong. Chamberlain was terrible. Yet who do we have starting for us in the league and who is on out loan?

Wilshere is a top quality talent. He has just been injured too much. Going out on loan is a brilliant option for him because he will get games and experience. He's only 24 and some people (not on here) are talking like he's in last chance saloon ! He still has the bulk of his career ahead of him and I firmly believe he will be a big success for Arsenal.

Well we won't have much time to wait and see if he's still the "talent of the century". In my opinion he's good but nowhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's lower to mid table PL quality and you guys think he's Arsenal quality. So naturally your expectations of him are quite high playing for Bournemouth? Are you expecting at least double digits in assists and a good amount of goals? He should at least match a player like Gerrard and Lampard statistically, who were England's and PL's best midfielders not long ago.

Call me cynical but the main reason why he's stayed with us is because he's a big name in football. He is great for marketing and sells a load of shirts. But his presence in the squad has been negligible and his "promise" has taken up a valuable squad position. If only we cut our losses earlier and brought in Isco a couple seasons ago, we would have been much better off. We need a player who is available, not someone who is constantly injured and promises to deliver one day, we've waited over 5 years so far! Wilshere is becoming the new Diaby for us.

 

[cini65]

Well we won't have much time to wait and see if he's still the "talent of the century". In my opinion he's good but nowhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's lower to mid table PL quality and you guys think he's Arsenal quality. So naturally your expectations of him are quite high playing for Bournemouth? Are you expecting at least double digits in assists and a good amount of goals? He should at least match a player like Gerrard and Lampard statistically, who were England's and PL's best midfielders not long ago.

Call me cynical but the main reason why he's stayed with us is because he's a big name in football. He is great for marketing and sells a load of shirts. But his presence in the squad has been negligible and his "promise" has taken up a valuable squad position. If only we cut our losses earlier and brought in Isco a couple seasons ago, we would have been much better off. We need a player who is available, not someone who is constantly injured and promises to deliver one day, we've waited over 5 years so far! Wilshere is becoming the new Diaby for us.

Couldn't agree more. Very little evidence he's top quality but that it's been masked by injuries. With RVP you could see quality. With Wilshere you can see a middling prem player.

I'm sure they'll be yet more excuses if he has another mediocre season for Bournemouth. And if turns out to have a blinder then great, he still belongs to us. But there's next to no evidence he has what it takes to be someone who plays regularly for a top club.

 

[lazarus20000]

Couldn't agree more. Very little evidence he's top quality but that it's been masked by injuries. With RVP you could see quality. With Wilshere you can see a middling prem player.

I'm sure they'll be yet more excuses if he has another mediocre season for Bournemouth. And if turns out to have a blinder then great, he still belongs to us. But there's next to no evidence he has what it takes to be someone who plays regularly for a top club.

You can see pure quality even if its for a few games. Wilshere is skillful and obviously has talent, but there are levels in football and he's not Arsenal level from what little I've seen from him recently. The problem is he's never proven himself and gone through the ranks, he got into our starting 11 due to our lack of quality in the squad and during our austerity measures. There is no surprise that Wenger has loaned him out when we have a good midfield, which he bought in! Let me do a quick breakdown of our midfield players and the available 3 positions, in order of current form and quality:

CAM / AM
1. Ozil (undisputed)
2. Cazorla
3. Ramsey
4. Wilshere
5. OXO

CM
1. Cazorla
2. Ramsey
3. Xhaka/Elneny/Wilshere - This one's hard to say as Xhaka hasn't had much game time, but can play here. Elneny has done well so far. Wilshere is more attacking but the other two are stronger and retain possession better.

DM
1. Xhaka
2. Coqs
3. Elneny

What is Wilshere's best position for us? I'd say CAM/AM, he likes to drive at the defense and pass and move at pace. The problem is he doesn't retain possession well enough, which can be detrimental to our style of play. Cazorla, who is one of his closest competitors for example retains possession excellently and is very measured on the ball, he gets our midfield ticking along nicely. Wilshere is still not a polished player and requires a few more years of development to be near the finished article.

 

[TheBear]

Like I said it will take 20-30 odd games to really see what he's made of IMO. The guy has to stay fit.

Interestingly Eddie Howe has already said he is willing to do the one thing Wenger won't..

''...One of the key things for us is to make sure he's fit and able to do himself justice but also to maintain his fitness is key.

'We will be flexible with how we train to get the very best out of the player...'

You can see pure quality even if its for a few games. Wilshere is skillful and obviously has talent, but there are levels in football and he's not Arsenal level from what little I've seen from him recently. The problem is he's never proven himself and gone through the ranks, he got into our starting 11 due to our lack of quality in the squad and during our austerity measures. There is no surprise that Wenger has loaned him out when we have a good midfield, which he bought in! Let me do a quick breakdown of our midfield players and the available 3 positions, in order of current form and quality:

CAM / AM
1. Ozil (undisputed)
2. Cazorla
3. Ramsey
4. Wilshere
5. OXO

CM
1. Cazorla
2. Ramsey
3. Xhaka/Elneny/Wilshere - This one's hard to say as Xhaka hasn't had much game time, but can play here. Elneny has done well so far. Wilshere is more attacking but the other two are stronger and retain possession better.

DM
1. Xhaka
2. Coqs
3. Elneny

What is Wilshere's best position for us? I'd say CAM/AM, he likes to drive at the defense and pass and move at pace. The problem is he doesn't retain possession well enough, which can be detrimental to our style of play. Cazorla, who is one of his closest competitors for example retains possession excellently and is very measured on the ball, he gets our midfield ticking along nicely. Wilshere is still not a polished player and requires a few more years of development to be near the finished article.

This is why I disagree. It's just the small things on the whole that show his class. I could make the Ozil comparison.. when he first came to the league many people claimed he was over-rated because he's not a flashy player but if you really look you can see everything he does is with an unusually high degree of control.
Wilshere may not be quite Ozil standard but he is TOP class in terms of talent. How he can move the ball within such tight spaces. The way he can pass without looking, variety of passing and the way he strikes the ball.

In many way I agree with Cini that English players on the whole get way too much hype (same happens in Brazil to be fair) and often dont have the ability to live up to it. But for me Wilshere is a different class. In terms of raw ability I think he's probably the best English player since Scholes. Unfortunately injuries have kept him behind from where his development should be.

If he doesn't live up to his potential I think AW will be largely to blame with his ridiculous training methodologies.

 

[lazarus20000]

Like I said it will take 20-30 odd games to really see what he's made of IMO. The guy has to stay fit.

Interestingly Eddie Howe has already said he is willing to do the one thing Wenger won't..

''...One of the key things for us is to make sure he's fit and able to do himself justice but also to maintain his fitness is key.

'We will be flexible with how we train to get the very best out of the player...'

This is why I disagree. It's just the small things on the whole that show his class. I could make the Ozil comparison.. when he first came to the league many people claimed he was over-rated because he's not a flashy player but if you really look you can see everything he does is with an unusually high degree of control.
Wilshere may not be quite Ozil standard but he is TOP class in terms of talent. How he can move the ball within such tight spaces. The way he can pass without looking, variety of passing and the way he strikes the ball.

In many way I agree with Cini that English players on the whole get way too much hype (same happens in Brazil to be fair) and often dont have the ability to live up to it. But for me Wilshere is a different class. In terms of raw ability I think he's probably the best English player since Scholes. Unfortunately injuries have kept him behind from where his development should be.

If he doesn't live up to his potential I think AW will be largely to blame with his ridiculous training methodologies.

I agree that his injuries have severely disrupted his development, a time when it was important for him to get games under his belt and learn. We will have to wait and see whether he reaches his said potential. He won't get a better chance to prove it under Howe for Bournemouth. He gets to play his preferred style of play that is compatible with Arsenal. I'm hoping he plays the bulk of games and that means the majority of the season.

But what is obvious is our training methods are causing premature injury to some of our players. Even if Wilshere does well and comes back to us, we need to address his and other player problems and have bespoke training methods just for their needs. There is no point having the best player in the world if he's never available due to injury, especially if they are caused by our own methods!

 

[BrunelGooner]

Paul Merson really is an odd ****er.

When we first heard that Wilshere was going to sign for Bournemouth, he was saying on Sky Sports News that it would be beneficial for all parties involved if it goes through and that it would be a good idea.

Then today, I see his quotes on SSN in an article which directly contradict his initial sentiments :

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nty-still-to-offer-arsenal-argues-paul-merson

Can this guy ever make his mind up? He's an absolutely woeful pundit. I'm certain the only reason why he's employed by Sky is because he makes people laugh when he mispronounces people's names, in addition to his over-the-top reactions. In terms of providing insight, he's as useful as a chocolate teapot!

 

[winifred122]

Paul Merson really is an odd ****er.

When we first heard that Wilshere was going to sign for Bournemouth, he was saying on Sky Sports News that it would be beneficial for all parties involved if it goes through and that it would be a good idea.

Then today, I see his quotes on SSN in an article which directly contradict his initial sentiments :

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nty-still-to-offer-arsenal-argues-paul-merson

Can this guy ever make his mind up? He's an absolutely woeful pundit. I'm certain the only reason why he's employed by Sky is because he makes people laugh when he mispronounces people's names, in addition to his over-the-top reactions. In terms of providing insight, he's as useful as a chocolate teapot!

I get the feeling that he has never really got past the fact that Wenger got rid him of almost immediately. He seems to save a god bit of vitriol for his critique of Wenger.

 

[BrunelGooner]

Just gonna put this out there now - Milik of Napoli looks a real top-class centre-forward. He's 22, got 6 goals in 5 games and his goalscoring record previously for Ajax was impressive for such a young player.

With Giroud entering his 30s, Perez in his late 20s and Welbeck's unreliable fitness, it could be worth taking a punt on next Summer, depending on if he can carry on this rich vein of form.

 

[Sanj]

Just gonna put this out there now - Milik of Napoli looks a real top-class centre-forward. He's 22, got 6 goals in 5 games and his goalscoring record previously for Ajax was impressive for such a young player.

With Giroud entering his 30s, Perez in his late 20s and Welbeck's unreliable fitness, it could be worth taking a punt on next Summer, depending on if he can carry on this rich vein of form.

Lol, I guess he is in contention for our future 'we tried to get a world class CF, but failed' player.

 

[BrunelGooner]

Lol, I guess he is in contention for our future 'we tried to get a world class CF, but failed' player.

Unfortunately, I expect this to be the case. I'm not going to pretend like I've been keeping an eye on him for years, but when Napoli bought him after they sold Higuain, I looked at some of his highlights and clips and he has the potential to be a truly special player. His goalscoring record speaks for itself and at 22, he's got his best years ahead of him.

I wouldn't mind us breaking the bank to get him purely because he could pay off the fee in a few seasons. Should he continue to develop like I think he will, he's not going to be at Napoli for long, so I hope we're at least looking into getting him.

 

[TheBear]

Just gonna put this out there now - Milik of Napoli looks a real top-class centre-forward. He's 22, got 6 goals in 5 games and his goalscoring record previously for Ajax was impressive for such a young player.

With Giroud entering his 30s, Perez in his late 20s and Welbeck's unreliable fitness, it could be worth taking a punt on next Summer, depending on if he can carry on this rich vein of form.

Could be a good option for sure. He's a good sized CF too so which bodes well for playing in the EPL.