Top 4 or FA Cup?

[ImpSaint]

Just shows how 'old Saints' attitude still festers amongst us. Proclamations of finishing 4th and going out in qualifying. Saying to someone the year you finished 4th. We know the old Saints. Once we won the FA cup and we finished 2nd once. That was the unambitious spendthrift Saints. The new Saints attitude is very ambitious. They aren't after one offs, they want to step up to the plate, stay there and still move forward.

Very disappointed in some of the answers here and very surprised by the Wigan answer. Maybe they accept that day because they don't think they will ever return to the Prem and think it was inevitable they would be down for good?

I would rather Saints finish 4th. They WILL then qualify. They WILL then push on year on year. They WILL have more chances to win the cup because they WILL get better year on year and therefore the opportunities to win the cup will be more achievable year on year as well.

I will be disappointed if we don't get top 4 but not distraught so like I said before a straight choice then I choose the 4th place because that will push us forward much more than a one off cup win will.

 

[fatletiss]

T

There is your explanation in a nutshell. I see your point, but you don't have to have a great team to win the FA Cup. A bit of good fortune with the draw, a few things going your way in other matches and the odd exceptional performance from your own team. It's great, don't get me wrong, but it's more to do with instant gratification than long term success.

Arsenal supporters complain every season that they don't win anything, but make the top4. They'd complain a lot more if they flirted with relegation every season and won the FA Cup every once in a while. And Arsenal are a huge club. Saints aren't there yet, but they have aims to be that way. You don't become a huge club by winning the FA Cup. You will do by being a regular top4 campaigner.

Read the first line of your last paragraph again

 

[fatletiss]

.

I’d go top four, because a team can win the FA Cup at any point, no matter their league form.

Interesting point: this club have managed that just once since 1885. Not much of an "at any point".

We won the FA Cup in 1976 (38 years ago) - everyone knows that.

We came second in the league in 1984 (30 years ago) - nobody knows that.

 

[fatletiss]

Just shows how 'old Saints' attitude still festers amongst us. Proclamations of finishing 4th and going out in qualifying. Saying to someone the year you finished 4th. We know the old Saints. Once we won the FA cup and we finished 2nd once. That was the unambitious spendthrift Saints. The new Saints attitude is very ambitious. They aren't after one offs, they want to step up to the plate, stay there and still move forward.

Very disappointed in some of the answers here and very surprised by the Wigan answer. Maybe they accept that day because they don't think they will ever return to the Prem and think it was inevitable they would be down for good?

I would rather Saints finish 4th. They WILL then qualify. They WILL then push on year on year. They WILL have more chances to win the cup because they WILL get better year on year and therefore the opportunities to win the cup will be more achievable year on year as well.

I will be disappointed if we don't get top 4 but not distraught so like I said before a straight choice then I choose the 4th place because that will push us forward much more than a one off cup win will.

So, if we finish 5th, is it less likely that will push on?

 

[fatletiss]

Spot on FLT! My thoughts exactly, finishing 4th and then going out in the qualifiers isn't achieving anything really, it just means we had a good season, winning a trophy, now that is an achievement

I want top four as well, but I was asked to make a choice. Coming top 6 and winning the cup is a massive step forward and will give the players the incomparable joy of winning something. I could argue that, that winning feeling would be better for the club in the long run too.

I can't say we wouldn't qualify either.

 

[Beef]

I want top four as well, but I was asked to make a choice. Coming top 6 and winning the cup is a massive step forward and will give the players the incomparable joy of winning something. I could argue that, that winning feeling would be better for the club in the long run too.

I can't say we wouldn't qualify either.

Would have to do it without Morgan then and probably a few others.

 

[Puck]

If you take an individual season in isolation then yes, winning the cup is better than finishing 4th.

The world doesn't work like that though and it would be better for the long term development of the club to finish in the top 4.

So top 4 it is.

 

[fatletiss]

Would have to do it without Morgan then and probably a few others.

True, but there is no guarantee that he'll stay if we qualify.

I'd love to finish 4th, it would be amazing but I'd also love to experience winning something again. I'm not 100% one way here, probably as close as 55:45, but today is like the club to lift a trophy and piss off all those who left to win things.

 

[Beef]

True, but there is no guarantee that he'll stay if we qualify.

I'd love to finish 4th, it would be amazing but I'd also love to experience winning something again. I'm not 100% one way here, probably as close as 55:45, but today is like the club to lift a trophy and piss off all those who left to win things.

I'd rather watch us in the CL. Imagine watching the big teams of Europe playing at St Marys. Also the amount of money you get from the CL would put us on another level.

 

[Lff]

If the choice was top 3 (i.e. guaranteed Champions League) or FA Cup I would take the former. I was there in 1976 and it was the greatest day of my life (this is not the official version that I tell my wife of course!) and something that I'll never forget.

However, if we don't finish top 3 or 4 there is a very good chance that this team will break up and we have to start again....again! Plus, I rather fancy a few Spanish away days rather than a cold Thursday afternoon in someplace ending in ....khstan.

To actually win something though........

 

[fatletiss]

oh I have Beefy. I'd would be great no doubt

 

[letissier86]

We have to go for both or we could end up with neither. We can't pick and choose. That is why I disagree with people who say we should play a weakened side...we could miss out on top 4 and then regret going out in the FA Cup. Winning is a habit...we should go for everything.

FA Cup or Top 4 if it was a real choice? Historically, the Cup every time...you can't eradicate that from your history. Every time we appeared in the Cup, we would be described as 2 times winner. Financially, top 4...this chance may not come along very often and would give us clout in the transfer market. At this moment, I would say top 4 because I want Saints to be seen as real contenders, but you have to play every game as if you are going for both.

And this thankfully is how I believe Koeman thinks. A winning mentality, breeds confidence and is based on winning games which gives us mutual momentum in competitions.

 

[letissier86]

FA Cup.

That is actual silverware, actual history. Our biggest "I was there" moment. And, in my opinion, coupled with top 6, it would be a big motivator in convincing players to stay.

4th place, we would still need to qualify for CL proper, no easy feat.

True but I think a possible season of CL football is a bigger lure and anchorage for existing players.

 

[Pelletron]

Interesting point: this club have managed that just once since 1885. Not much of an "at any point".

We won the FA Cup in 1976 (38 years ago) - everyone knows that.

We came second in the league in 1984 (30 years ago) - nobody knows that.

Doesn’t negate the point that a club struggling in the league or even in a lower division can win the FA Cup at any point. Like we could – and did – win at that point in 1976. Not sure you can pick that apart - I didn’t say ‘will’. A team 30 points off the top six with eg. six games left can’t, for example, qualify for Europe. That same team can win the FA Cup if in the draw. With this being likely to be a unique opportunity to break the top four, my decision is based on the fact that going on a cup run may prove risky to our league position, and so I would rather grab a top four place this season. Anyway, it’s not really an arguing point – it’s my decision on what choice I would take, and my personal reasoning.



Can’t speak for anyone else, but I remember both those dates and their significance, and I personally lament that second place finish (particularly as it was so close) a lot more than I celebrate that cup win (I was one year old) – as I would loved to have Saints down on the roster as league winners. For I feel it will be less likely to happen again, as opposed to a cup win, which I feel may happen every year. Those who were at Wembley in 1976 will strongly oppose that point of view. Similarly, if we were languishing in 17th place in the league, the answers people are giving here would also be different.

 

[tomw24]

Spot on FLT! My thoughts exactly, finishing 4th and then going out in the qualifiers isn't achieving anything really, it just means we had a good season, winning a trophy, now that is an achievement

Disagree with the first part. Finishing top 4, whatever happens in the qualifiers would be achieving a hell of a lot.

 

[Beef]

And this thankfully is how I believe Koeman thinks. A winning mentality, breeds confidence and is based on winning games which gives us mutual momentum in competitions.

But that is not the topic is it? The question is what would you rather happen. Of course all of us want to do well in both that is pretty obvious.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I don't believe it is either/or. Both/neither is more likely, simply because of the "winning mentality", to coin a Pardew phrase, that comes of, well, winning. If we win tonight we are more likely to win on Saturday than if we lose tonight. A winning team, on a run in the cup and on a winning run in the league.

 

[Beef]

oh I have Beefy. I'd would be great no doubt

Playing Barca in the group stage......

 

[letissier86]

Which do people think we are more likely to achieve out of the two? And of course this takes into account the fact that the club will go out to secure both outcomes which will affect our chances in each.

Funnily enough, I think we're more likely to finish 4th and in part because of the rotational policy we'll employ for the FA Cup games but also because I genuinely feel us continuing on our current trajectory in the league is more likely.

 

[Beef]

I don't believe it is either/or. Both/neither is more likely, simply because of the "winning mentality", to coin a Pardew phrase, that comes of, well, winning. If we win tonight we are more likely to win on Saturday than if we lose tonight. A winning team, on a run in the cup and on a winning run in the league.

It's a question Chilco. It's not going on about how if we win tonight we are more likely to win the weekend. This is would you rather win a cup or get into the CL.