Too little too late?

[snlk/poksnbn]

http://www.givemesport.com/392753-chelsea-referee-to-be-dropped-after-blunder?autoplay=on



Either the standard of refereeing has to be improved or some kind of retrospective ruling such as cancelling the goal from the original scoreline should come into force following fiascos like we yet again witnessed on Saturday. What benefit do we stand to gain from this latest Premier League move? Any ideas for retrospective punishment/rewards?

 

[swanselona]

I feel somewhat for the ref, as although it was a clanger, MOTD showed he turned around at the time of the incident, so most likely has taken the word of his linesman, so not exactly at fault himself.

 

[Kifflom!]

The ref has to take responsibility for the decisions though and should have been watching the ball. He shouldn't ref another game in this Division for 12 months imo.

I still think Chelsea would have won comfortably but I guess that's not your point.

 

[snlk/poksnbn]

How are we seen to be benefitting from this though? Which for me is what should be happening. That incident changed the outcome of the game.

 

[BluefromBridgend]

I wouldn't categorically say it changed the outcome of the game ITI. Who knows how the game would have moved on if the goal had been chalked off?

However, it did alter the mood and tempo giving Chelsea the upper hand and impetus. For us to have gone in ahead at half time would have been a great platform to build on second half and cause Chelsea to ask questions of themselves. But to lose the lead the way we did can have done no good for anyone's confidence and muust have knocked a chunk from the team morale.

Nevertheless they clearly have players of great quality and it would have been no surprise if they had come back to win the game in the second half. It just would have been good to start the second half with our noses in front.

 

[swanselona]

The ref has to take responsibility for the decisions though and should have been watching the ball. He shouldn't ref another game in this Division for 12 months imo.

I still think Chelsea would have won comfortably but I guess that's not your point.

In an idealistic world, the ref will have an eye on the ball at all times, he will also have 20|20 vision so he can see exact details from 50 yards away. But alas, we are in the real world, where **** just sometimes happens.

Same as our disallowed goal against West Brom last season, was that the ref's fault? He didn't make the call, the linesman did. So now should we castrate the ref for that? The ref is not responsible for the actions of others, just like I wouldn't be responsible for someone elses. Was it a mistake yes? Did the ref get it right? No, Why didn't he get it right, only they know, but based on what I seen, I can only imagine the linesman made a balls up, or neither actually seen what happens, and you can't call something that you haven't seen, its a lapse, but not something I feel should be punished. Not the ref anyway, linesman at most.

Do I feel bad for Cardiff, of course, stuff has happened to us too, but if neither has seen it, then its not an instance that was really badly handled, like calling a goal that didn't actually go the right side of the post (reading? i think?) or calling on-side, when the player is 5 yards offisde, or on-side for that matter. More a mistake, however if the linesman did see it and called it wrong, then it is a balls up of the highest order, but still the ref is not the one who should be blamed.

Sometimes mistakes are made, after all ref's and linesmen are human beings, we all make mistakes, some of us have no doubt crept over the speed limit without noticing, but do we get punished for that everytime?

As in all thingss, **** just sometimes happens, and there is not a great deal you can do about it. And whilst referee's and linesman are human beings, mistakes will always happen, some worse than others, and in this instance, if the linesman has called it wrong, then he needs to learn, but to blame the ref, who didn't see it, is for me, just morally wrong.

Put it this way, the ref is running backwards at a fair pace, in a blink of an eye, or the moment he takes a quick look to see where he is going, the incident happens, what are we expecting here really?

 

[snlk/poksnbn]

I wouldn't categorically say it changed the outcome of the game ITI. Who knows how the game would have moved on if the goal had been chalked off?

However, it did alter the mood and tempo giving Chelsea the upper hand and impetus. For us to have gone in ahead at half time would have been a great platform to build on second half and cause Chelsea to ask questions of themselves. But to lose the lead the way we did can have done no good for anyone's confidence and muust have knocked a chunk from the team morale.

Nevertheless they clearly have players of great quality and it would have been no surprise if they had come back to win the game in the second half. It just would have been good to start the second half with our noses in front.

I'm a realist at the end of the day m8 but I've highlighted a sentence from your quote which could have applied to the Man Citeh game. They didn't.

Swansealona!

The ref is part of a four man team so if he is culpable then so are they and should be treated as such. I'm not the one deciding their fate.

 

[swanselona]

I'm a realist at the end of the day m8 but I've highlighted a sentence from your quote which could have applied to the Man Citeh game. They didn't.

Swansealona!

The ref is part of a four man team so if he is culpable then so are they and should be treated as such.

Next time one of your players gets sent off, we should suspend all 11 players, after all they are part of a team right? Or better yet, should we suspend the captain, for one of his team mates being sent off. As thats basically the same thing.

 

[snlk/poksnbn]

Next time one of your players gets sent off, we should suspend all 11 players, after all they are part of a team right? Or better yet, should we suspend the captain, for one of his team mates being sent off. As thats what your suggesting.

Now you're just being silly and arguing for arguments sake.

 

[Kifflom!]

I take your point on the ref's view, Swans.

I think the OP is hinting that maybe there should be a mechanism in extreme circumstances for disallowing a goal post final whistle. That will never happen, though I can see an argument for it.

As for "That incident changed the outcome of the game" ....maybe, maybe not. But I seriously doubt it.

 

[swanselona]

Now you're just being silly and arguing for arguments sake.

Hang on now, your the one who said they are a team, and should be punished equally. But why? Why should the ref be punished for a mistake by the linesman, someone he has to have trust in. That trust was clearly misjudged, so why again, should the ref take the blame and get suspended?

But don't give me the "team" crap, because that isn't a valid reason.

 

[snlk/poksnbn]

I take your point on the ref's view, Swans.

I think the OP is hinting that maybe there should be a mechanism in extreme circumstances for disallowing a goal post final whistle. That will never happen, though I can see an argument for it.

As for "That incident changed the outcome of the game" ....maybe, maybe not.

Thank you Aussie. As you say we will never know the final outcome.

 

[swanselona]

I take your point on the ref's view, Swans.

I think the OP is hinting that maybe there should be a mechanism in extreme circumstances for disallowing a goal post final whistle. That will never happen, though I can see an argument for it.

As for "That incident changed the outcome of the game" ....maybe, maybe not. But I seriously doubt it.

I know, sometimes I wish there was a way to go back and change the outcome, or change what happened, but the only real way is to have a full replay, as even taking the goal away will result in the game panning out differently.

But then would Cardiff be happy with having to play another game in the season, with a huge chance of getting beat again, or would they take the 4-1 loss to conserve energy?

Take Chelsea winning 2-1, now at 2-1, they went on the defensive, because they believed the job was done, retrospectively then, the goal was taken away, so the result is then 1-1, so a draw, now what is to say that even without that goal, Chelsea would have played til they got the 2nd regardless, so would have won anyway? So even retrospective can't fix a mistake in a match based on how the match would have panned out.

 

[snlk/poksnbn]

I know, sometimes I wish there was a way to go back and change the outcome, or change what happened, but the only real way is to have a full replay, as even taking the goal away will result in the game panning out differently.

But then would Cardiff be happy with having to play another game in the season, with a huge chance of getting beat again, or would they take the 4-1 loss to conserve energy?

Take Chelsea winning 2-1, now at 2-1, they went on the defensive, because they believed the job was done, retrospectively then, the goal was taken away, so the result is then 1-1, so a draw, now what is to say that even without that goal, Chelsea would have played til they got the 2nd regardless, so would have won anyway? So even retrospective can't fix a mistake in a match based on how the match would have panned out.

You've lost me now.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Aye agreed - let's not get too scientific on this - it can cause brain damage........

Any sort of retrospective punishment would ultimately have depend upon the final result. What if the ref dropped such a clanger, but the penalised team actually went on to win?

Cancelling the goal wouldn't change the points won, so would it be regarded as having lesser impact upon the game? It's the same major dropped bolluck by the ref either way, but would that let the ref off the hook?

Decisions can turn games but we just have to live with it resultswise. You can't start trying to change the result by lodging some sort of appeal, that would prove chaotic.

When the ref blows the final whistle, that's it. What the powers that be do about a ref's poor decisions and performance overall is another matter, but the result just has to stand.

 

[EldonBluebird]

A little bit of help from technology would given the correct decision but as we don't use it we are stuck with it !!!!

What is scary though is for the ref to allow a goal when he hasn't seen how it has come about for all he knows Eto could have punched or headed the ball from the keepers hands.

 

[suprimir]

Surely we can't be complaining too loudly as Marshall obviously handled the ball outside of the box!

In the end two bad decisions. but we could have been playing with 10 men for most of that match.

 

[swans-m]

Marshall should have been sent off for handball outside the box before the incident. Cardiff could have been down to 10 men away at Chelsea with your number 1 keeper off the pitch.
Sometimes you get the luck (the handball) sometimes you don't (the goal).
Its just a bitch when you dont.

 

[DaiJones]

This is just part of football and the game we all love, there has always been mistakes from match officials even the 4th official at times like 6mins injury time.

In a normal season you win some and lose some.

Time to move on.

 

[Stevoldinho]

I think the sense of injustice comes from the fact the handball outside the box is 'one of those' you might or might not get. Like Loris at ours.

The goal was absolute bollocks, a complete black and white decision which you'd expect professional officials to get right 100% of the time.

One side issue, is hand ball outside the box an auto red card? Wouldn't it have to stop a clear goal scoring chance otherwise it's just a yellow surely?

Totally agree with Dai that it's time to move on though.