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finglasqpr said:
That's what I mean by indoctrination. He is teaching the kid to be sectarian based on a battle from 1690 for gods sake. 330 years ago. In that battle, King William defeated the King of England. How loyal is that?
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Unfortunately, I think indoctrination on both sides will take several generations to be whittled away.
That's how it looks from the outside anyway.
 
finglasqpr said:
That's what I mean by indoctrination. He is teaching the kid to be sectarian based on a battle from 1690 for gods sake. 330 years ago. In that battle, King William defeated the King of England. How loyal is that?
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Not quite accurate mate.
King William the third WAS King of England at the time of the Battle of the Boyne.
William became King of England and Scotland in 1688.
 
finglasqpr said:
Gosh, that's a hard one to answer but I'll do my best.

First of all I would say that there are possibly a mixture of opinions on both sides of the border. Politics and religion are definitely at play when it come to football as there are two separate associations, although that wouldn't be the case for rugby for example which is an all-island sport with a United Irish team playing together.

I would also suggest that a majority of (not all) Nationalists in N.I. would support the Republic rather than the North as players from Nationalist areas like Shane Duffy and James McClean have chosen to represent the Republic after they played underage football for the North. Under the terms of the Good Friday agreement, they have the right to consider themselves either Irish or British and choose a passport from either country. These type of defections have certainly created resentment from some North of the Border. On the other hand, players like Neil Lennon who is also from a strong Nationalist background chose to play for the North relatively successfully when he played for Leicester. As soon as he joined Celtic, he became public enemy number one and they even had caricatures of him hanging from lamp posts. I realise he can be very gobby so he is partially to blame for the attention he brought onto himself in a small way.

On the Republic side, there would also be an element of people who wouldn't support the North in any shape or form. I would like to think the percentage of people like that is smaller the the same kind of people in the Unionist parts of N.I. Back in the 70's and 80's, I remember there being major trouble when Glasgow Rangers and Linfield came to play matches in Dublin. A lot of lads came from the North to support them and they were met by a very hostile crowd from down here. So, there is/was a small element here who are just as bad as their counterparts from the North.

As there has been relative peace for the last 26 years or so, I would like to think things are a bit different now. Back in 2016 both sides of the island qualified for Euro 2016 in France. I flew out of Dublin Airport to head over and there were huge crowds of lads from both sides drinking in the airport bars. No flags visible but there was a bit of banter between both sets of fans and no hint of any trouble.

Northern Ireland are now playing Slovakia in the play off final in a few weeks. I am sure there will be an element who will be cheering Slovakia but I would like to think, the majority would prefer to see Northern Ireland win. Remember, the winner gets to play Poland and Sweden in two games in Dublin and Spain in Bilbao. The hospitality industry in this city would make far more money if N.I. qualify instead of Slovakia.

I hope that gives you an idea of my own sentiment. It is not straight forward lol.
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Thanks for the thoughtful and interesting response. Reading between the lines of what you say, it seems like the longer time goes on the more mutual support there is, which is great.
 
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rangercol said:
Unfortunately, I think indoctrination on both sides will take several generations to be whittled away.
That's how it looks from the outside anyway.
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In post [HASHTAG]#2051[/HASHTAG] I said, "people on both sides are indoctrinated". In post [HASHTAG]#2053[/HASHTAG] I said, "there is sectarianism and hatred on both sides". It has always been a two way street. I have said that before on here. I also said in 100 years time I'd expect things to be similar to what they are today.

I am not picking on any one side, they both teach their kids to hate. I hope that is clear now if it wasn't before.
 
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rangercol said:
Not quite accurate mate.
King William the third WAS King of England at the time of the Battle of the Boyne.
William became King of England and Scotland in 1688.
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Technically that is correct.

Morally, James was still the legitimate king despite him fleeing to France for fear of a civil war. His infant Son strictly should have taken over as he was next in line to the throne. James inherited the throne from his Brother legitimately. William was invited to be king only after James fled to France due to anti-Catholic riots in England and Scotland.
 
finglasqpr said:
Technically that is correct.

Morally, James was still the legitimate king despite him fleeing to France for fear of a civil war. His infant Son strictly should have taken over as he was next in line to the throne. James inherited the throne from his Brother legitimately. William was invited to be king only after James fled to France due to anti-Catholic riots in England and Scotland.
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Correct.
 
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Totallyqpr said:
Seriously, haven’t we got a better CB than Dyer?
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I'm starting to wonder about Southgate a little.
Dier and Maguire together is ****ing awful.
Coady is better than both of them.
Doesn't help that we don't have a fit left back, making the defence even more vulnerable.
Not sure he rates Grealish either.
 
finglasqpr said:
In post [HASHTAG]#2051[/HASHTAG] I said, "people on both sides are indoctrinated". In post [HASHTAG]#2053[/HASHTAG] I said, "there is sectarianism and hatred on both sides". It has always been a two way street. I have said that before on here. I also said in 100 years time I'd expect things to be similar to what they are today.

I am not picking on any one side, they both teach their kids to hate. I hope that is clear now if it wasn't before.
Click to expand...

I'm a tad confused mate.
Wasn't accusing you of anything, in fact, I thought I was agreeing with you.
 
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Nearly half an hour in and I’d summarise what I’ve seen so far thus:

Belgium look a team within which every player knows what they’re doing.

England don’t.
 
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jeffranger said:
Not much creativity from England, defending shambolic, a stroll in the park for Belgium
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Not sure how Southgate can accommodate the likes of Grealish and other creative players in this formation.
Although he could have played Grealish today with Sterling injured.
Can't quite work out how Rice gets in ahead of Winks or even Phillips, who I like.
 
rangercol said:
Not sure how Southgate can accommodate the likes of Grealish and other creative players in this formation.
Although he could have played Grealish today with Sterling injured.
Can't quite work out how Rice gets in ahead of Winks or even Phillips, who I like.
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Strange player Rice, for West Ham he’s been out standing but England he don’t stand out, prefer winks to Phillips
 
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Injuries have dictated selection to an extent, but I would have played either Gomez or Coady or both.
Both clear penalties imo.
Kane, Sterling and Chilwell would make England look a whole lot better.
 
Is it me or have England failed to kick on since the overachievement at the last World Cup? Did very well in the First Nations Cup, but I never get the sense that they will dominate decent opposition. I think our players have an inferiority complex when up against some of their foreign club mates.

Agree, Southgate really doesn’t like Grealish. He went out of his way to praise Mount who replaced Grealish in the last match.
 
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What a fantastic win by England.
By far the better side second half and really could have won by more.
Clever tactical change by Southgate at half-time, pushing Trippier in field a little to make us much more solid in midfield.
Both teams started with top players missing, but England were superb second half.
Young Phillips from Leeds is excellent. I really like him.
4th rated side in the world 2, top rated side in the world 1.
Get the **** in!!
 
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