Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?

[Citizen Kane.]

That's three of a very leaky back four and the other's van de Ven.

I think our back line is very talented, just coached horrendously and then asked to perform impossible tasks in a crazy system. It also receives zero protection from the midfield (although Bentancur has in recent weeks started to fix this).

But to say 14 members of our squad are top 4 quality? Fanciful stuff.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think our back line is very talented, just coached horrendously and then asked to perform impossible tasks in a crazy system. It also receives zero protection from the midfield (although Bentancur has in recent weeks started to fix this).

But to say 14 members of our squad are top 4 quality? Fanciful stuff.

I think that it's very hard to judge our squad as a whole because of the system.
I don't think that we have many bad players, just a poor balance and tactics.

 

[Dier Hard]

Sorry but this is a wild overestimation.

I can't see the current top 4 being interested in more than:
Romero
Porro
Bergvall
Kulusevski
Udogie

I'm really struggling to get anywhere near 14 players.

Not quite 14 but I’d definitely add Son and Bentancur as top four players. Van de Ven too albeit he’s made of biscuit. I’d say Maddison has a good case as well, like Son and Bentancur he’s been used incorrectly so we’ve rarely gotten to see the best of him but his stats over the last 6-7 years easily rank him amongst the upper tier attacking mids in the league, which just makes it even more of a head scratcher that Ange continues to play him as a sort of LCM/ LM hybrid mess.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Not quite 14 but I’d definitely add Son and Bentancur as top four players. Van de Ven too albeit he’s made of biscuit. I’d say Maddison has a good case as well, like Son and Bentancur he’s been used incorrectly so we’ve rarely gotten to see the best of him but his stats over the last 6-7 years easily rank him amongst the upper tier attacking mids in the league, which just makes it even more of a head scratcher that Ange continues to play him as a sort of LCM/ LM hybrid mess.

Fair enough.

My opinions on Son are well published so I won't repeat them. I certainly don't think any of the top 4 would sign him, even on a free, due to his age.

Bentancur isn't top 4 quality imo although he has looked better in recent games playing in a deeper mopping up position rather than the headless chicken role Ange seems to prefer for all of his midfielders.

Maddison ain't top 4 and tbh I think that's why we faced zero competition for his signature and also why he keeps getting overlooked for England despite there being a real lack of [HASHTAG]#10s[/HASHTAG] atm.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Maddison ain't top 4 and tbh I think that's why we faced zero competition for his signature and also why he keeps getting overlooked for England despite there being a real lack of [HASHTAG]#10s[/HASHTAG] atm.

There isn't a lack of English 10s, though.
Bellingham, Foden, Gibbs-White, Palmer, Eze, Rodgers, Gomes...
That's not including players who can play there, but it's not their main position.

 

[Dier Hard]

Fair enough.

My opinions on Son are well published so I won't repeat them. I certainly don't think any of the top 4 would sign him, even on a free, due to his age.

Bentancur isn't top 4 quality imo although he has looked better in recent games playing in a deeper mopping up position rather than the headless chicken role Ange seems to prefer for all of his midfielders.

Maddison ain't top 4 and tbh I think that's why we faced zero competition for his signature and also why he keeps getting overlooked for England despite there being a real lack of [HASHTAG]#10s[/HASHTAG] atm.

If Son left Spurs on a free pretty much all of Europe would snap him up, lol. I think there’s already been links with Barcelona throughout the season of just that - waiting to see if he’d be gettable on a free as we all know they can only pay in IOU’s.

Bentancur’s easily top four quality. He was a major catalyst for us getting top 4 under Conte when it initially looked doubtful. Would’ve possibly been our POTY in his second season but for his injury too. Shows glimpses of his class but gets halted by the system and tactics.

We did face competition for Maddison’s signature, Newcastle wanted him and they had CL football to offer at the time too. I think he gets overlooked for England because England don’t play with a 10 albeit we should sooner or later because that’s where Palmer is best. What attacking mids would you say are better than Maddison out of interest?

 

[Spurlock]

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How is it a fluke?

seems very deliberate to me

 

[Citizen Kane.]

There isn't a lack of English 10s, though.
Bellingham, Foden, Gibbs-White, Palmer, Eze, Rodgers, Gomes...
That's not including players who can play there, but it's not their main position.

Bellingham is better played deeper imo.

The others are better out wide.

Rogers is the one to watch, agreed. Huge talent.

 

[The Huddlefro]

I think our back line is very talented, just coached horrendously and then asked to perform impossible tasks in a crazy system. It also receives zero protection from the midfield (although Bentancur has in recent weeks started to fix this).

But to say 14 members of our squad are top 4 quality? Fanciful stuff.

When Vicario, Porro, Romero, VdV, and Udogie start together this season I think we win about 75% of our games with well over 2ppg. With all the players fit I still think the system still has issues but the biggest issue is that of the outfield back 4, 3 of them have had consistent issues with staying fit and available, and Porro frequently gets overplayed which has caused his form to dip at times.

We haven’t had sufficient backup for all those players and the midfield remains unbalanced and incomplete, which causes even more issues when we have to rotate the defence because the lesser replacement players get exposed more easily.

 

[KingHotspur]

How is it a fluke?

seems very deliberate to me

Luck of the draw

 

[paulthewire]

Fair enough.

My opinions on Son are well published so I won't repeat them. I certainly don't think any of the top 4 would sign him, even on a free, due to his age.

Bentancur isn't top 4 quality imo although he has looked better in recent games playing in a deeper mopping up position rather than the headless chicken role Ange seems to prefer for all of his midfielders.

Maddison ain't top 4 and tbh I think that's why we faced zero competition for his signature and also why he keeps getting overlooked for England despite there being a real lack of [HASHTAG]#10s[/HASHTAG] atm.

Jim Ratfink would sign him. Think of all shirts he could sell to Korean fans.

 

[LockStock]

I think our back line is very talented, just coached horrendously and then asked to perform impossible tasks in a crazy system. It also receives zero protection from the midfield (although Bentancur has in recent weeks started to fix this).

But to say 14 members of our squad are top 4 quality? Fanciful stuff.

Interesting stats if true (found them under a YouTube video).....

"Some worthwhile stats:

Last season, in the 18 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 67%/22%/11% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the other 20 PL games last season when those players didn’t play together, Spurs would have finished third on 83 points, a point above Liverpool and 15 points clear of Villa.

And this season, in the 13 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 62%/8%/31% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the 23 PL games when those players haven’t played together, Spurs would be in second place, on 69 points, with 22 wins, 3 draws and 11 losses.

Doesn’t this suggest that Postecoglou has shown that he has the tactical and motivational ability to have Spurs vying for the league title in the next few years, provided he has his best defenders on the pitch?

The fact that he has achieved these results in his first two seasons, at the start of a major squad rebuild, is impressive. He’s done it with a young and still developing playing squad, without Harry Kane, and with Son not at the level he had reached in previous seasons.

Plus, it must be remembered that in the first 10 games of last season, Maddison was the best creative midfielder in the PL but then he seriously injured his ankle the next game, was out for 3 months and only played one full game after his return and never reached the same heights. Spurs have had 31 manager changes in 39 years, and won 2 league titles in 142 years."

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[humanbeingincroydon]

Interesting stats if true (found them under a YouTube video).....

"Some worthwhile stats:

Last season, in the 18 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 67%/22%/11% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the other 20 PL games last season when those players didn’t play together, Spurs would have finished third on 83 points, a point above Liverpool and 15 points clear of Villa.

And this season, in the 13 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 62%/8%/31% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the 23 PL games when those players haven’t played together, Spurs would be in second place, on 69 points, with 22 wins, 3 draws and 11 losses.

Doesn’t this suggest that Postecoglou has shown that he has the tactical and motivational ability to have Spurs vying for the league title in the next few years, provided he has his best defenders on the pitch?

The fact that he has achieved these results in his first two seasons, at the start of a major squad rebuild, is impressive. He’s done it with a young and still developing playing squad, without Harry Kane, and with Son not at the level he had reached in previous seasons.

Plus, it must be remembered that in the first 10 games of last season, Maddison was the best creative midfielder in the PL but then he seriously injured his ankle the next game, was out for 3 months and only played one full game after his return and never reached the same heights. Spurs have had 31 manager changes in 39 years, and won 2 league titles in 142 years."

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The issue is the gulf between what our fully fit team can do and the scratch xi

Some can be blamed on the understudies not being 1:1 replacements, for example Dragusin's distribution from the back is wildly different to that of Romero or Mickey Van that he needs to play alongside one of them so that we're not rewriting our entire tactical plan, though to be honest what sticks out for me is the scratch team was starting to put performances together in January and build a run of form in February - only to get unceremoniously dumped back to the bench once the first choice players became available again, and that doesn't sit right considering how that didn't translate into a noticeable uptick in results

 

[KingHotspur]

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[PowerSpurs]

Interesting stats if true (found them under a YouTube video).....

"Some worthwhile stats:

Last season, in the 18 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 67%/22%/11% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the other 20 PL games last season when those players didn’t play together, Spurs would have finished third on 83 points, a point above Liverpool and 15 points clear of Villa.

And this season, in the 13 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 62%/8%/31% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the 23 PL games when those players haven’t played together, Spurs would be in second place, on 69 points, with 22 wins, 3 draws and 11 losses.

Doesn’t this suggest that Postecoglou has shown that he has the tactical and motivational ability to have Spurs vying for the league title in the next few years, provided he has his best defenders on the pitch?

The fact that he has achieved these results in his first two seasons, at the start of a major squad rebuild, is impressive. He’s done it with a young and still developing playing squad, without Harry Kane, and with Son not at the level he had reached in previous seasons.

Plus, it must be remembered that in the first 10 games of last season, Maddison was the best creative midfielder in the PL but then he seriously injured his ankle the next game, was out for 3 months and only played one full game after his return and never reached the same heights. Spurs have had 31 manager changes in 39 years, and won 2 league titles in 142 years."

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I mostly agree.
Vicario
Porro, Romero, Van der Ven, Udogie
Bergvall, Bentancur, Maddison
Kulusevski, Solanke, Son
would most likely get top four if they played most weeks.
I think Spence, Sarr and Johnson can come into that team without much weakening. Hence my 14 players in an earlier post. The rest of the squad is either unproven youngsters, underperforming seniors or players who have played too few games to tell. It looks reasonably likely that three or four out of Kinsky, Gray, Donley, Devine, Lankshear, Vuskovic, Odobert, Danso, Tel and Moore could turn into very good players.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Just an observation...you cannot really roll out 'what if' stats about 100% players' availability as almost all players get injured and/or suspended during the course of a season and miss games. The art of good club management and coaching is ensuring as best as possible that replacements, even if not as good technically, will be able to fit in.
This is clearly not the case with us - and that falls on both coach and owner.

As for our alleged Premier League 'Top 4' players, I think only the following would be on a shopping list as potential starters for those clubs: Romero, VdV and Son (possibly). Bergvall might well sneak in there as well from the potential he has already shown.

Porro, Udogie, Bentancur, Maddison, Vicario and possibly Spence might make Top 4 squad level, definitely Top 5 or 6 starters. The likes of Solanke, Odobert, Tel and Danso would probably fall into that latter category as well.

I think we have some other really top prospects who may well go on to achieve the Top 4 'starter' level, the likes of Moore and Gray particularly.

This summer's transfer window will be interesting, particularly if we do not win the EL. All our alleged 'elite' players will be in the marketplace I'm sure and it will be interesting to see just how much interest they attract - and from whom / where. Romero for example is far more likely to be heading to Madrid than Merseyside or Manchester!

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Interesting stats if true (found them under a YouTube video).....

"Some worthwhile stats:

Last season, in the 18 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 67%/22%/11% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the other 20 PL games last season when those players didn’t play together, Spurs would have finished third on 83 points, a point above Liverpool and 15 points clear of Villa.

And this season, in the 13 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 62%/8%/31% win/draw/loss record.

If you were to apply this record to the 23 PL games when those players haven’t played together, Spurs would be in second place, on 69 points, with 22 wins, 3 draws and 11 losses.

Doesn’t this suggest that Postecoglou has shown that he has the tactical and motivational ability to have Spurs vying for the league title in the next few years, provided he has his best defenders on the pitch?

The fact that he has achieved these results in his first two seasons, at the start of a major squad rebuild, is impressive. He’s done it with a young and still developing playing squad, without Harry Kane, and with Son not at the level he had reached in previous seasons.

Plus, it must be remembered that in the first 10 games of last season, Maddison was the best creative midfielder in the PL but then he seriously injured his ankle the next game, was out for 3 months and only played one full game after his return and never reached the same heights. Spurs have had 31 manager changes in 39 years, and won 2 league titles in 142 years."

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If you take away the first ten games of last season, these stats are meaningless.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Just an observation...you cannot really roll out 'what if' stats about 100% players' availability as almost all players get injured and/or suspended during the course of a season and miss games. The art of good club management and coaching is ensuring as best as possible that replacements, even if not as good technically, will be able to fit in.
This is clearly not the case with us - and that falls on both coach and owner.

As for our alleged Premier League 'Top 4' players, I think only the following would be on a shopping list as potential starters for those clubs: Romero, VdV and Son (possibly). Bergvall might well sneak in there as well from the potential he has already shown.

Porro, Udogie, Bentancur, Maddison, Vicario and possibly Spence might make Top 4 squad level, definitely Top 5 or 6 starters. The likes of Solanke, Odobert, Tel and Danso would probably fall into that latter category as well.

I think we have some other really top prospects who may well go on to achieve the Top 4 'starter' level, the likes of Moore and Gray particularly.

This summer's transfer window will be interesting, particularly if we do not win the EL. All our alleged 'elite' players will be in the marketplace I'm sure and it will be interesting to see just how much interest they attract - and from whom / where. Romero for example is far more likely to be heading to Madrid than Merseyside or Manchester!

I forgot Kulusevski...
He would possibly be a Top 4 starter, but is another far more likely to be heading out of the PL.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I mostly agree.
Vicario
Porro, Romero, Van der Ven, Udogie
Bergvall, Bentancur, Maddison
Kulusevski, Solanke, Son
would most likely get top four if they played most weeks....

This is why having one way of playing is a dangerous ploy, especially when the drop off in quality and specific qualities of the replacements is significant.

Basing a defensive strategy on having a freak like MvdV constantly available leaves us enormously vulnerable when he isn't. Having Ben Davies/Dragusin as his replacement is ****ing nuts.

We don't have enough pieces/intention to buy the misding pieces to do **** like that. We need a pragmatic, adaptable coach. Mourinho, Conte and Ange all failed significantly on the back of the club having no intention of giving them the pieces that they wanted/needed.

 

[The RDBD]

Interesting stats if true (found them under a YouTube video).....

"Some worthwhile stats:

Last season, in the 18 PL games in which Romero, van de Ven, Porro and Udogie played together, Spurs had a 67%/22%/11% win/draw/loss record.

...

Puts stattery hat on.

LOL.

Takes stattery hat off.