Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?

[PleaseNotPoll]

Here's the interesting thing: Amorim said the reason Mason Mount started was to counter our playing inverted FBs...but we haven't actually done that for months, as Udogie hugs the touchline these days while Porro is just as likely to launch balls over the top from deep, which suggests that Amorim had a fixed idea of how we were going to play that was based off data from six months ago, and all he got from that was Garnacho being very vocal about how he should have started

You'd think he would have picked up on that, given he was in charge for two of the three previous matches we played against them this season, wouldn't you?

That's hilarious, if it's true.
Set up to play against Angeball and then gets hit with some traditional, Portuguese countering!

 

[The RDBD]

That's hilarious, if it's true.
Set up to play against Angeball and then gets hit with some traditional, Portuguese countering!

The RDBD law of Spurs managers :

As the manager tends towards sh*te, the play tends towards Portu-ball.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

That's hilarious, if it's true.
Set up to play against Angeball and then gets hit with some traditional, Portuguese countering!

Tempting to double check how many people voted for Amorim in the last manager poll

Because I don't think he'll get many votes now...

 

[PowerSpurs]

I think his preferred style does win games when he has his preferred players playing at the top of their game. Also, his preferred style isn't as fixed as media would have us believe, he has a history of adapting in finals.

In this final, Bissouma and Bentacur finally did the business in the middle of the park. Bissouma was a beast. Where has this Bissouma been?

I frankly don't care how abysmal it was to watch.

We won.

If we had all of the creative attacking weapons available in Maddison and Kulusevski, it might have been a better watch, we also might have been more open and lost, or taken it to penalties.

Who knows? Who cares?

He adapted his tactics to suit the players he had available, and the opposition. Isn't this what many have wanted him to do all season in the league?

He has proven that he can do it, and also play with a flourish when the right players are available, and rise to the big occasion without losing his nerve.

He has also disrupted Daniel's, and Spurs', pattern of accepting being a nearly team. The man went full pelt in all cup competitions and came out winning one. He was doggedly determined and did not accept coming out of the season empty handed.

He said he wins in his second season, and did it. Mentality monster.

He said, after coming 5th last season, there is no point being in the CL if you don't have a squad capable of competing in the CL. The same is true now. It's on Daniel to give the man the tools to do the job at a higher level. A deeper squad with a little more experience. He's been saying as much for the best part of a year.

Now is the time for Daniel to put up or shut up.

It almost doesn't matter who the manager is at this point. I would keep Ange for at least another season to see if he follows through, but that's not even the main issue now.

There is no point changing the manager and retaining the level as a 'nearly' squad, as Daniel has been attempting to do too many times at historical points of failure. Poch got sacked because things deteriorated after he wasn't backed enough when it really mattered. Conte could be argued was a similar story. Where was the intent to compete in the CL signings wise, when Conte got us into the competition?

Mourinho should not have been sacked before the cup final. Why? To avoid paying some fee? Simply stupid.

Ramos was sacked after winning a cup, but the difference between Ramos and Ange is that Ange has still got the players very much on side. They want to play for him. There are players that have signed that haven't arrived yet that want to play for him. Ange's man management, mentality and character is sound. It's not the same situation.

Ange is getting the squad into the habit of winning things. That starts with the first win. He nailed it.

Yes, the price of the league position was high, maybe this will help show Daniel that the cost of winning is sometimes higher than you hope.

Now we are winners.

It's an indisputable fact. It's now time to continue the behaviour and make it a habit. I agree with you in that money has to be spent, but even if we don't shatter ceilings and go beyond net spends, we need to at very least balance the squad.

Are we going for it, squad improvement wise, or not, Daniel?

Are you gonna build a squad capable of winning the league? The CL?

It's time for the bold statements of intent with signings. Daniel should at least be seen trying to dance on the metaphorical grave of Man U whilst manoeuvring in the transfer window. Sign Eze/Cunha, attempt to get Kane back [even if it doesn't happen it'd be a solid statement of intent, one last Son & Kane season], reinforce the midfield with options strong and experienced enough that things won't go to **** if Bentancur and Bissouma are out. In fact, improve on on the CMs with a statement signing. Same for Solanke. Give Porro some stronger competition also.

Do that and frankly I could care less about sacking the manager, in Paratici I trust. [It'd still be dumb to sack Ange but, I'd be able to come to terms with it easily if the squad was undeniably stronger and more balanced. Why not give Ange a chance with an improved squad?]

Don't do that and it's rinse repeat of potential mediocrity for another who knows how many years.

I generally agree with your sentiment but I don't think Levy has much scope to increase the spending budget because of the stadium covenants.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Ange's comments at the victory parade just lost him every Mindhunter fan...

 

[remembercolinlee]

If one ignores our glorious CWC victory in '63 and '72 against Wolves, where our greatest ever manager was a trophy generating machine, the remaining 3 European Finals we've participated in, have been fatal for the respective managers/marked the end of their reigns.

1974 v Fejenoord - it wasn't until September of that year that Bill left, but no doubt, this game ended his managerial career. It was his Waterloo. There was an ageing team that had been outplayed and terrible fighting between fans and involving police before, during and after the match.

1984 - Keithy knew he was going well before the match. The victory was just reward for his fabulous service to our club...but go he did, straight after. Right or wrong (it was sooooo wrong) the club made a decision and didn't waver when we won the cup.

2019 - Like Bill, Poch didn't go until a few months after the loss in our biggest ever match...but it must have been a major factor in the decision to part ways...and rightly so. Like Bill, he'd come to a point where his disillusionment with the club (substitute COYS Daniel) was damaging him and it.

So, Ange departing soon after this might look strange to outsiders, but it's very much in keeping with our history.

Either Daniel grasps the nettle this week, or we sack Ange mid-season, when things are following the same path as the majority of his time here, but the outcome of the final is strangely irrelevant. The right move is always the right move.

So Daniel,....make the right decision. Do it early. Get it right and appoint a successor who fits the club profile better.

Sorry, Ange!

IT'S WHO WE ARE, MATE!

I do get the argument for getting rid of Ange but I'm still Ange in for a variety of reasons.

We went down hill (and a division) after Bill Nicholson left, down hill after Keith Burkinshaw left and again after Pochettino left.

Ange is only the 9th manager to win a trophy with us.

He is only the 3rd manager to win a European trophy with us.

He has ended our longest trophy drought since the gap between 1921-1951.

He is only the 4th manager to get us CL /European cup football.

The bond between him and the team is a real strength as was shown by their very public reaction to him after the final. A new manager coming in will want different players and we'll just be back at the beginning again.

Only two of our managers have won more than one trophy...I would love to see Ange be given the chance to become the third.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I do get the argument for getting rid of Ange but I'm still Ange in for a variety of reasons.

We went down hill (and a division) after Bill Nicholson left, down hill after Keith Burkinshaw left and again after Pochettino left.

Ange is only the 9th manager to win a trophy with us.

He is only the 3rd manager to win a European trophy with us.

He has ended our longest trophy drought since the gap between 1921-1951.

He is only the 4th manager to get us CL /European cup football.

The bond between him and the team is a real strength as was shown by their very public reaction to him after the final. A new manager coming in will want different players and we'll just be back at the beginning again.

Only two of our managers have won more than one trophy...I would love to see Ange be given the chance to become the third.

I get what you've said. I really do...but weighing the 2 views, FOR ME, I simply don't think or feel that he's the coach that we need.

It's cold, hard and clinical...but there you go.

FWIW, I don't see Daniel/Venkatesham/Fabio doing it. The structure is unclear...but I can see Ange being gone by the end of next season.

I hope I'm wrong...I was about us winning the EL and will be again...but you call 'em as you see 'em.

COYS!

 

[SpursDisciple]

One thing in Ange's favour is the apparent support he has from the players. Seems to be real warmth. Does beg the question why they tailed off in the league though.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I forgot to give any examples of what's wrong with Ange staying.

Front and centre, the decision to play Micky VdV and Romero when they weren't fit. Inexcusable, reckless and ****ing stupid.

Employing tactics that weren't working...over and over and over again...with players who were completely unsuited to them.

Playing Johnson and Sonny as touchline hugging wingers...WTF? A criminal waste of what they do best.

The list goes on...which is why he shouldn't.

 

[Billy The Spur]

I was in the sack camp, but have now changed to no, I think after the Europa win he deserves the first dozen games or so of next season to see how things progress. If it`s still looking dire after a summer transfer window and the first chunk of next season, then replace him as soon as possible.

 

[Tilly'sowner]

I was in the sack camp, but have now changed to no, I think after the Europa win he deserves the first dozen games or so of next season to see how things progress. If it`s still looking dire after a summer transfer window and the first chunk of next season, then replace him as soon as possible.

Do you (or others) still want ENIC/Levy out?

 

[Big Ern]

I’ve seen a lot of “Ange in/Ange out” polls on twitter today. Once casting my vote, it’s been quite staggering to see the % of fans that are now “in”. The Europa League appears to have changed hearts and minds.

is it because he deserves it for winning a trophy?
Is it because he’s now shown that we can defend, and be sensible in our play?
Are people realising that the 21 matches we’ve lost in the league are perhaps because our attention moved towards the EL?

I don’t know.

But I still don’t see a successful season unless we address many positions within the team, and I don’t trust Levy to support that process.

where do we go from here?

Your fans have changed to in because he has given you your best night in decades.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

Do you (or others) still want ENIC/Levy out?

I want Daniel's hands removed from any and all footballing decisions. He has proven himself incapable of doing the job. If he wasn't a major shareholder, he'd have been sacked years ago.

If ENIC separate ownership and control, as most big businesses do, unlike Mick Jones, I don't care if they stay or go.

 

[Tilly'sowner]

I want Daniel's hands removed from any and all footballing decisions. He has proven himself incapable of doing the job. If he wasn't a major shareholder, he'd have been sacked years ago.

If ENIC separate ownership and control, as most big businesses do, unlike Mick Jones, I don't care if they stay or go.

I respect that and I believe that has been Levy’s intentions for some time, hence the appointments of the likes of Munn and the recent former CEO of Arsenal etc. Obviously Munn wasn’t the right person for the job but the former Arsenal CEO might be a step in the right direction.

I was simply curious about those “ENIC/levy out “ folks because one of their main arguments was that spurs hadn’t won a trophy for so long. I imagine the protests will quieten down for a while before starting up again should things go Pete Tong next season!

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I respect that and I believe that has been Levy’s intentions for some time, hence the appointments of the likes of Munn and the recent former CEO of Arsenal etc. Obviously Munn wasn’t the right person for the job but the former Arsenal CEO might be a step in the right direction.

I was simply curious about those “ENIC/levy out “ folks because one of their main arguments was that spurs hadn’t won a trophy for so long. I imagine the protests will quieten down for a while before starting up again should things go Pete Tong next season!

I see the trophy drought as a symptom, not the disease itself. The disease is that sporting excellence isn't a high enough priority in the club. Since the stadium build started in earnest, it's hard to think of enough good decisions to occupy the fingers of one hand.

Paratici worked out well enough. I'll be pleased if/when he returns...after that it becomes a struggle.

All the hardware is in place to become a massively successful club. The support is there. We just need the right leadership...in the boardroom, dug-out, academy and...

...it's all there to be had.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I see the trophy drought as a symptom, not the disease itself. The disease is that sporting excellence isn't a high enough priority in the club. Since the stadium build started in earnest, it's hard to think of enough good decisions to occupy the fingers of one hand.

Paratici worked out well enough. I'll be pleased if/when he returns...after that it becomes a struggle.

All the hardware is in place to become a massively successful club. The support is there. We just need the right leadership...in the boardroom, dug-out, academy and...

...it's all there to be had.

The issue is we have the right parts, but install them in the wrong order

Take a look at our various DoFs: Arnesen came in at the right time while there is no such thing as the right time for Comolli, but on the other hand Paratici would have cooked if he was available a couple of years earlier (or at the very least simmered, given the state of the global transfer market...) while Lange would've been great under Poch or even post-Arnesen Jol

Similar goes for the choice of manager: both Conte and the ubermensch are players who add the last couple of components to teams to get them across the line but they came in during a rebuild or when it was obvious a rebuild was needed respectively, which was especially obvious with the ubermensch as arguments can be made that he either came in a year too late or even a few months too late considering we were ready to splurge in the summer of 2019

A few players also fit into this mold: pretty much all of the summer of 2019 signings are players that would have (theoretically...) worked if they had a year to bed in and were unleashed afterwards, instead pretty much all of them were earmarked for key positions and were either habitually injured or too damn lazy to take up the responsibility, or for another example Aurier was a finished product so it made no sense to bring him in because we had Trippier determined to step into the starting spot and KWP as a potential understudy so we should have committed to Ricardo Pereira if we were going to sign a RB

 

[The RDBD]

I get what you've said. I really do...but weighing the 2 views, FOR ME, I simply don't think or feel that he's the coach that we need.

It's cold, hard and clinical...but there you go.

FWIW, I don't see Daniel/Venkatesham/Fabio doing it. The structure is unclear...but I can see Ange being gone by the end of next season.

I hope I'm wrong...I was about us winning the EL and will be again...but you call 'em as you see 'em.

COYS!

Levy will show himself to not be a consistent cold
"by the numbers" guy, but an inconsistent knee-jerk
reactionary.

Ange will be here for the start of next season,
and I suspect he will not make it to the end (for the
above reason) .

 

[Citizen Kane.]

One thing in Ange's favour is the apparent support he has from the players. Seems to be real warmth. Does beg the question why they tailed off in the league though.

They tailed off because Ange told them to! He was very clear about this in his comments after the EL win.

 

[KingHotspur]

They tailed off because Ange told them to! He was very clear about this in his comments after the EL win.

Not even Ange believes that.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

The issue is we have the right parts, but install them in the wrong order

The Morecambe and Wise of football clubs ...