Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?

[Left on the Shelf]

Well, what a difference a night in Bilbao makes....

Yes, I have changed my vote.

Whether or not Ange can balance and develop the side next season is still very much up for debate, but he deserves the chance.

A major trophy for this club after so long, and the riches it's brings, could (and should) be transformative.

Football should be about passion and emotion. It's (very) painful at times, but events like last night - and seeing the human reaction of our fans - are what it is all about.

He may well fall flat on his face in 25/26, but by God, he's earned the chance to try!

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Not changing my vote and not going to be sucked in by emotion as United were when they kept Ten Hag on after their FA cup win.

Ange essentially openly admitted that he was consciously sacking off the league from the end of January in order to focus on the EL.

That is unacceptable imo and if anyone thinks it'll be easier to juggle the PL and the CL next year, they are deluded. We'll be sacking it off from December latest.

His preferred style of play can only work if we spend half a billion a year giving him two top players in every position, and increase our wage ceiling by 45%. Neither of these things is going to happen.

His Plan B did the job in the end but was as turgid as anything Jose or Conte served up on a regular basis. We also cannot lose sight of the fact that most of the teams we've faced in the EL would be relegated in the PL. There is no correlation in terms of success from one to the other.

Taking his first ten games out the picture, his ppg is atrocious yet he's been given more money to spend than any of his predecessors.

I am still firmly in the 'sack him' camp. Let him walk with his head held high.

I really hope Levy has the guts to do the right thing and follow his head over his heart.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Well, what a difference a night in Bilbao makes....

Yes, I have changed my vote.

Whether or not Ange can balance and develop the side next season is still very much up for debate, but he deserves the chance.

A major trophy for this club after so long, and the richest it's brings, could (and should) be transformative.

Football should be about passion and emotion. It's (very) painful at times, but events like last night - and seeing the human reaction of our fans - are what it is all about.

He may well fall flat on his face in 25/26, but by God, he's earned the chance to try!

Just think: we were a Micky goal line clearance away from you feeling the exact opposite emotions last night.

Decisions like this cannot be made off the back of one game.

 

[Big Ern]

Not changing my vote and not going to be sucked in by emotion as United were when they kept Ten Hag on after their FA cup win.

Have you not seen what happened after they got rid of him?

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Just think: we were a Micky goal line clearance away from you feeling the exact opposite emotions last night.

Decisions like this cannot be made off the back of one game.

I get all of that, I really do.
But I think there are now more potential downsides to changing this summer than providing those funds and seeing how the season goes.
Am I happy with the majority of performances in the last 18 months or convinced he is capable of taking the club forward? Not by a long shot! But he has achieved something that numerous others have tried and failed.
On that basis, I'm happy to give him a chance.

 

[LockStock]

He said it. He did it.

"I win things in my second season."

Not changing my vote and not going to be sucked in by emotion as United were when they kept Ten Hag on after their FA cup win.

Ange essentially openly admitted that he was consciously sacking off the league from the end of January in order to focus on the EL.

That is unacceptable imo and if anyone thinks it'll be easier to juggle the PL and the CL next year, they are deluded. We'll be sacking it off from December latest.

His preferred style of play can only work if we spend half a billion a year giving him two top players in every position, and increase our wage ceiling by 45%. Neither of these things is going to happen.

His Plan B did the job in the end but was as turgid as anything Jose or Conte served up on a regular basis. We also cannot lose sight of the fact that most of the teams we've faced in the EL would be relegated in the PL. There is no correlation in terms of success from one to the other.

Taking his first ten games out the picture, his ppg is atrocious yet he's been given more money to spend than any of his predecessors.

I am still firmly in the 'sack him' camp. Let him walk with his head held high.

I really hope Levy has the guts to do the right thing and follow his head over his heart.

Ange realistically focussed on the thing we could win, and pivoted when the plot thickened and and chances diminished.

He was doggedly determined to win what was available, and he delivered.

In winning this cup in the manner that he did, he has proven he can adapt tactics. So, the main issue becomes managing the squad of players. The squad is unbalanced, and not the finished article.

Are you saying you'd rather us be slightly higher in the league, and not winning it, but also not have won the cup?

Or would you rather we got into the champions league, in say 4th place, and not have won the cup?

 

[The RDBD]

He said it. He did it.

"I win things in my second season."




Ange realistically focussed on the thing we could win, and pivoted when the plot thickened and and chances diminished.

He was doggedly determined to win what was available, and he delivered.

In winning this cup in the manner that he did, he has proven he can adapt tactics. So, the main issue becomes managing the squad of players. The squad is unbalanced, and not the finished article.

Are you saying you'd rather us be slightly higher in the league, and not winning it, but also not have won the cup?

Or would you rather we got into the champions league, in say 4th place, and not have won the cup?

Cathy Newman time :

So you're saying, that Ange can finish no lower
than PL 17th next season, while also winning the CL ... ??

 

[LockStock]

Cathy Newman time :

So you're saying, that Ange can finish no lower
than PL 17th next season, while also winning the CL ... ??

I'm not saying anything about next season, I'm asking what would have been preferred this season.

 

[The RDBD]

I'm not saying anything about next season, I'm asking what would have been preferred this season.

I am asking what you will prefer next season
(and why it should be any different from what
happened this season) ...

 

[LockStock]

I am asking what you will prefer next season
(and why it should be any different from what
happened this season) ...

Answer my question first, then I'll answer yours. No problem.

 

[The RDBD]

Answer my question first, then I'll answer yours. No problem.

You didn't ask me one.
I merely exposed the stupidity in your question to CK.

 

[LockStock]

You didn't ask me one.
I merely exposed the stupidity in your question to CK.

My questions are far from stupid, but er... ok.

Do you.

Good talk.

 

[Dier Hard]

I’m also not changing my vote but equally I can’t be mad that a manager who won our first trophy (and a big one at that) in yonks gets to keep his job.

I’m not sure I fully believe he truly prioritised Europa after the Jan window, I just think it was more of a case of he had no choice after how badly he’d done in the league. And I maintain what I’ve said since before a ball was kicked this season and that is this squad was good enough to win it - and we ****ing did! And I credit him for proving why we were favourites, because in previous years in Europa I’ve often felt between managers and players we’ve treated it with far too much disrespect or gone in far too overconfident and been left embarrassed, in the KOs especially this season we treated every game as if we were facing Real Madrid and that’s the right mentality and attitude.

I think he’ll stay next season but I do think he’ll struggle balancing his style of play for CL and Prem because you can’t rotate much in those comps and I think that’ll result in a lot of injuries and thus a lot of defeats (again). But at the least, I guess objectively, he’s earned the right to lead us into it next season.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I get all of that, I really do.
But I think there are now more potential downsides to changing this summer than providing those funds and seeing how the season goes.
Am I happy with the majority of performances in the last 18 months or convinced he is capable of taking the club forward? Not by a long shot! But he has achieved something that numerous others have tried and failed.
On that basis, I'm happy to give him a chance.

I have to push back, and hard, on this statement.

I see this as a very dangerous line to take.

Numerous others only failed because unlike Ange they didn't purposefully sack off three and a half months of the PL season. It is totally unfair to make any sort of comparison, simply because they were aiming for standards far, far higher than he has.

I'm pretty sure Poch would've done much better in the CL and possibly won the FAC in 16/17 if he'd sacked off the league from the end of January, but he didn't. Does that make him a failure stood next to Ange?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Of all nights.

There’s gonna be a fight .

 

[Citizen Kane.]

He said it. He did it.

"I win things in my second season."




Ange realistically focussed on the thing we could win, and pivoted when the plot thickened and and chances diminished.

He was doggedly determined to win what was available, and he delivered.

In winning this cup in the manner that he did, he has proven he can adapt tactics. So, the main issue becomes managing the squad of players. The squad is unbalanced, and not the finished article.

Are you saying you'd rather us be slightly higher in the league, and not winning it, but also not have won the cup?

Or would you rather we got into the champions league, in say 4th place, and not have won the cup?

He's proven that his preferred tactics - presumably the reason we hired him in the first place - don't win games.

We reverted to the most puritan Conte/Jose tactics in the EL and it was largely abysmal to watch, let's be honest.

As I've just said to LOTS, if Jose/Conte had also been given the luxury of sacking off half the season, there's every chance they would have broken our trophy duck much sooner.

We are praising Ange for succeeding on metrics that no previous manager has ever been measured against, delivering success in a manner that ultimately was the opposite of the vision he sold when he was appointed. And I will have no part in it. Keeping him on (unless we shatter our wage ceiling and net spend this summer) is a madness.

 

[Animo Et Fide]

Well, what a difference a night in Bilbao makes....

Yes, I have changed my vote.

Whether or not Ange can balance and develop the side next season is still very much up for debate, but he deserves the chance.

A major trophy for this club after so long, and the richest it's brings, could (and should) be transformative.

Football should be about passion and emotion. It's (very) painful at times, but events like last night - and seeing the human reaction of our fans - are what it is all about.

He may well fall flat on his face in 25/26, but by God, he's earned the chance to try!

I've changed my vote too. Probably get pelted for it but I feel it's the right thing to do. I think he has the players firmly behind him and has, in the EL, shown he is willing to adapt from the gung ho failures. Also I am in a a bit of a drunken hungover haze and I'm probably not thinking straight.

 

[The RDBD]

...

We are praising Ange for succeeding on metrics that no previous manager has ever been measured against, delivering success in a manner that ultimately was the opposite of the vision he sold when he was appointed. And I will have no part in it. Keeping him on (unless we shatter our wage ceiling and net spend this summer) is a madness.

The premise IMHO is simple for those who have now
witnessed the trophy win they have long craved
(that the older hands have seen often enough) :

Do you to wish a season to play out like this one has,
every other season ??

If the club wants it so, that is fine by me.
Then next season under Ange-balI I would watch only the
CL KO stages (should Spurs get that far) , and the FA cup.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I've changed my vote too. Probably get pelted for it but I feel it's the right thing to do. I think he has the players firmly behind him and has, in the EL, shown he is willing to adapt from the gung ho failures. Also I am in a a bit of a drunken hungover haze and I'm probably not thinking straight.

I'm sure he has the players firmly behind him. He doesn't require them to actually win!

 

[Left on the Shelf]

I have to push back, and hard, on this statement.

I see this as a very dangerous line to take.

Numerous others only failed because unlike Ange they didn't purposefully sack off three and a half months of the PL season. It is totally unfair to make any sort of comparison, simply because they were aiming for standards far, far higher than he has.

I'm pretty sure Poch would've done much better in the CL and possibly won the FAC in 16/17 if he'd sacked off the league from the end of January, but he didn't. Does that make him a failure stood next to Ange?

Poch did what he could. My point wasn't that anyone was a failure. Rather - and only - that Ange had actually won a trophy.
It is up to the individual to assess whether that achievement was a worthy one and wether he should get another run next season.

I have been one of his strongest critics' but have made the assessment that now is not the time to sack him. I may well be wrong and will happily admit it.