Time to drop Pelle?????????

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RedandWhiteManofKent

RedandWhiteManofKent

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2011
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Canterbury
Ok, it's been touched on in other threads - is it time to drop Pelle and have another plan of attack.

Please, I don't want this to be a player bashing negative thread, just thoughts on what you think we should do that Koeman isn't seeing right now.

Since buying Pelle, Koeman has stayed loyal to him playing him in 43 premier league games (virtually all) and in that time has scored 14 goals - 1 every 3 games, not too bad a record.

I would play him at home to man utd, he has a good record of scoring at home and he suits our style of home play but away game's..................................just 2 goals and saints scoring record away is poor to.

In all of the games he has played there have been just 2 assists and the most frustrating thing for me is not the annoying flicks but the amount of times he gets caught offside.

Where we set up more defensively away from home we need pace and creativity for the counter or to make the most of possession. Against WBA we made 522 passes, the most we have made away from home since our premier league return but what did we do with those passes in terms of chances created.

Juanmi, I have no idea how good he is/will be, but I like Long who has pace to cause problems but didn't get a minute of yesterday's game.

I would like to see us to continue to play him at home and come up with another option to suit our style of play in away game's.
What is everyone's suggestions?
 
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As you say, I'd play him against United (if only because I'm there and meeting FLT so I want to see how wound up he gets!)
 
Jay is still not up to sharpness, but I think he is the best alternative to Pelle.

Tadic on the left gives us better balance and Manè on the right.

Yesterday I thought JWP and Jay were the only two players constantly moving and giving our defenders decent passing options.
We will lose the physicality of Pelle, but Jay will stretch the opposition more and leave gaps for Mane to exploit.
 
It's ok dropping him but we haven't got a natural replacement.
JRod is stills miles off the pace, Shane isn't a goal scorer of any note and Mane is better coming from deep and we didn't buy Charlie Austin!
We would have to change our tactics to fit with what we have available and neither RK or the players work well in any plan but Plan A
I can't see any change in the near future
 
Don't drop him. He played well against Norwich. He seems to be a better player at home so I'd definitely play him against United.
 
Dark Lord SFC said:
It's ok dropping him but we haven't got a natural replacement.
JRod is stills miles off the pace, Shane isn't a goal scorer of any note and Mane is better coming from deep and we didn't buy Charlie Austin!
We would have to change our tactics to fit with what we have available and neither RK or the players work well in any plan but Plan A
I can't see any change in the near future
Click to expand...

I agree with your post bar one point: what is wrong with changing our tactics?
 
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Nope, not yet. For me, we only have one alternative to Pelle and that is Jay - but, just as others have said, Jay still isn't ready yet.

I'm a Long supporter, I have been for years. But his role is either an impact sub (why did you not use him yesterday, Ron!), or starting as part of a pair. So I do not regard him as a replacement for Pelle.

I also don't regard Mane as a replacement for Pelle, given that he has started the season well in his current role - and of course, moving him would then leave us instead having to look for a Mane replacement. And we don't have one of those. It's doesn't solve the problem with Pelle, it just moves it.

If Jay ever gets back to where he was, then him being flanked by Mane on the right and Tadic on the left is an absolute no brainer for me. With Pelle offering an option from the bench, in addition to Long. But until then - or until the January or Summer transfer windows, given that Jay might never get back to where he was - Pelle stays for me, for the vast majority of games.

(The one caveat I have to all of this is Juanmi. I have absolutely no idea what sort of attacker he actual is. And to be frank, I'd be pretty surprised if many Saints do. He may well turn out to be someone who can play through the middle on his own. But given I have no idea whatsoever, I'm hardly going to start advocating us playing him in that role. For all I know, I might as well be advocating Davis or JWP playing it.)
 
What would our new tactics be if we changed? We have a lot of options now.

We will probably play this:

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But without Pellé we'd be looking at something different, I guess. Like maybe:

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4-4-2 is a bit unfashionable these days, but it might work...
 
I think Pelle's problem is entirely in his head. When he arrived, he had no idea that he wouldn't be able to score in the Premier League. As a result he just planted them in left, right and centre. It's a bit like my 13yo son; he has total confidence after five minutes driving in a car park that he could make it to Scotland.

The problem with that type of confidence is that once it's shattered there's a long, hard slog to rebuild. It also leads to a desire to take short cuts; I think this is the source of Pelle's fancy plays. When his confidence was high he just played good, steady forward play. It was when it went that he started looking for the killer pass, the delicious flick off the heel. About three times yesterday he chested the ball down and each time it worked. I didn't see a flick work.

I genuinely don't know how you get that confidence back but I do find it interesting that Ron keeps on with him, as does the Italian national team. I'm not always of the "manager knows best" school of thought but I do wonder about this. Would dropping him resolve the issue and get him to relax? Perhaps a visit from Derren Brown might be in order. Convince him he's a goalscorer.

One thing I do believe, though, is that if he does get his confidence back he'll be banging them away for fun again. He definitely has the talent and skills to do it; we've seen it.

Vin
 
I'd persevere with Pelle, but at least try a plan B, especially away from home with maybe Jay or Long up front. With Pelle we are very, very one dimensional.
 
I'm not attempting to defend Pelle, I'm as frustrated as anyone by his lack of willingness to cover back (even Mane was doing his best in that department), and the final ( I think) shot on target by Pelle was almost a gently tapped back pass - he seemed to drain of confidence, when faced with a goal, with the ball at his feet.
However, we see him for 90 minutes a week (the ones that matter, to be fair) whereas Ron sees him at every training session, so he must be doing something right (or not terribly wrong) in Ron's eyes.
Either that, or Pelle has friends in the Southampton branch of The Cosa Nostra, and Ron's recent "hamstring injury" was actually a contract injury, just a gentle warning to Ron that if he ever drops Pelle, he may lose a knee cap. (Get your over the top conspiracy theories here)
 
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As much as I think we really should have a tangible and interchangeable Plan B, I think that stems as much from the midfield options and the uncertainty over how defensive we want to be.

I love JWP and his enthusiasm, but his end product needs refining if he's to make it at this level. I think he should go on loan to the Championship to hone his skills to more than just being enthusiastic and a willing runner.

Vic is an enforcer but IMO needs to find a position now that Morgan has flown the nest. He seems to roam around enforcing, but I think just needs to be tighter/more disciplined in terms of position.

Romeu has started very well bar the "odd" yellow card, but he's cons from a less physical league and wants to make an impression.

Davis is a very willing runner/defender/mini enforcer and is dependable without being exciting or offering goals.

Clasie hasn't had a chance to make an impression yet, I was slightly surprised in the first European game that he seemed out of sorts against a tactically weak but physically strong opponent. But he needs time to adapt and settle, meaning we're not going to see the best of him for a good 6-8 weeks.
 
I think all of our attacking options are sort of average-ish (maybe Mane and JWP have the potential to improve quite a bit, but they aren't there yet). Each of our options has different strengths and weaknesses but none of them are the type of player you can expect to be game-changers when the opposition is playing defense-first.

So to me, I don't think Pelle is the problem. Nor do I think replacing him with someone else will magically fix things.

But I do think that when you have a bunch of average guys with different attributes, the way you can get more out of them is to find combinations that work and figure out how and why, and then mix-and-match depending on opposition/game situation. But you also can't expect to swap all four attackers around every game and expect to find consistency.

So for me, I guess I would start with the basic premise that Tadic plays on the left, and Mane on the right. Let those two be your constants for now. And then figure out when/how to use Long, Mane, Rodriguez, Juanmi, JWP, Davis, (Clasie?) around them. And as far as that goes, I would say a good starting point is Pelle at home, and but experiment with something different away. And IMO, I would start Rodriguez and just sub him if he is still not at the point where he can play 90 minutes. I've actually been impressed with him. His technique seems to have improved quite a bit, or I guess it was better than I remembered. He's had a couple of sublime first touches and/or dribbles in close contact that surprised me. He's still not sharp overall but that's to be expected after a long layoff. And I haven't seen his old speed but that may come in time.
 
Pelle is a frustrating player, but I also feel he is a frustrated player, as well.
I think he has good football vision and knows where he wants to put the ball before he receives it, hence the first time flicks and back heels.
The frustration for him, and the fans, is that his ability to execute the above, isn't there. Yes, it works sometimes, but not often enough.
Would this change if he had a "proper" No10, working around him, someone who knew how to read the forward passes to Pelle and put himself in the best place for the simple lay off?
At the moment Pelle has either Davis or JWP filling that role, and with all due respect to both, we need a better option there.
I would love to see Tadic in that role, but I don't think he would give us the defensive cover provided, especially, by Davis when we aren't in possession.
Roll on the January window ;-)
 
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