Daily Racing Thread Thursday 23rd. Nov. 2017

[attivo]

Thursday's Meetings

Market Rasen
N/H 7 Races 12:10-3:20p.m.
Wincanton
N/H 6 Races 12:20-3:10p.m.
Thurles
N/H 7 Races 12:30-3:50p.m.
Newcastle
A/W 8 Races 1:50-5:40p.m.
Chelmsford(E)
A/W 8 Races 5:55-9:00p.m.

Racecards
At The Races
Racing Post Bloodstock
Sporting Life

Good Luck

 

[Ardent1965]

Shine In Dubai 3.15 Thurles 12/1 top priced. Slightly below the radar but a great chance if can improve a bit on last run.

 

[Ron]

4.05 Newcastle. Form lines don't seem to be getting me anywhere but there is enough in the form book to suggest that Bowson Fred should be too good for these. After being involved in a bit of scrimmaging he pulled out to challenge on the outside and would have won but for the late surge of Kimberella who subsequently ran well to finish only 4l behind Marsha in a G3 and ran OK in a G1 beaten 11l by Harry Angel. He also has some other decent form. This is way ahead of anything the others have produced. He is a disappointing 5/1 for a horse that hasn't won in his last 18 races but, with my blindfold on, I can't see him out of the frame and hopefully will get into the winners' enclosure. Bowson Fred ew at 5/1 (freely available)

 

[OddDog]

Morning all

I can't help feeling a little disappointed that Sizing John won't be coming over for the Betfair Chase at Haydock due to the ground. He won the Future Champions Novice Hurdle Christmas 2014 on heavy (beating Sub Lieutenant and Golantilla) and also took the Irish Gold Cup at Leopardstown in February on soft ground. These Grade 1s don't come along every week and I think the million quid bonus is a great idea and would have expected the top staying chasers to be aiming for it. Is this just more evidence of Cheltenham (or certainly the three spring fesivals) being the be all and end all of the NH scene?

 

[Sir Barney Chuckles]

Is this just more evidence of Cheltenham (or certainly the three spring fesivals) being the be all and end all of the NH scene?

In short ‘yes’.

Said last week that there is just no pattern or flow to the NH season anymore and certainly not like on the Flat. It’s simply all about the Cheltenham Festival (and to a lesser extent Aintree and Punchestown) – this is not healthy for the sport, I’m afraid. And don't get me started about how much the former has turned into a complete parody of itself to boot!

 

[OddDog]

12:10 Market Rasen Euxton Lane 8/1

I was very impressed by the way Euxton lane moved through his bumper at Bangor, tanking along before being VERY tenderly handled by Wayne Hutchinson to finish 3rd. That run was no doubt about educating him and, assuming he has schooled well, today could be the day with Leighton Aspell booked. Trevor Hemmings has got a nice one here I reckon and I think he will go very well today at around the 8/1 mark.

 

[OddDog]

In short ‘yes’.

Said last week that there is just no pattern or flow to the NH season anymore and certainly not like on the Flat. It’s simply all about the Cheltenham Festival (and to a lesser extent Aintree and Punchestown) – this is not healthy for the sport, I’m afraid. And don't get me started about how much the former has turned into a complete parody of itself to boot!

I think Betfair should be applauded by offering the million bonus as they are clearly trying to give the season some context, not just the "all roads lead to Cheltenham". I love the spring festivals but there needs to be more focus on the other good races during the winter. The 2 mile chase division, for example, has an excellent programme of Shloer Chase, Tingle Creek, Desert Orchid Chase, Clarence House Chase, Game Spirit Chase all before Cheltenham. Why not make a "Qipco" type series out of this, as on the flat. You could put together a similar programme for 2 mile hurdles, and the stayers over both timber and fences. Just needs a bit of creativity and of course a sponsor.

 

[Bostonbob]

I much prefer the Championship status of Cheltenham to anything the Flat has to offer. Show me a single flat festival where it is truly a clash of the best horses. Ascot maybe but it's definitely not got the same romanticism that Cheltenham does in my eyes. I'd say having a clearly defined championship week for horses of graded and handicap ability is exactly what the sport needs. I know for a fact i would not be a racing fan if the NH scene went down the same route as the flat. Champions Day in October, Breeders Cup, Dubai World Cup, Glorious Goodwood - all, to me, are crap to watch. Ascot's enjoyable. The Derby and the 1000/2000 are also fun.

 

[redcgull]

Morning all

I can't help feeling a little disappointed that Sizing John won't be coming over for the Betfair Chase at Haydock due to the ground. He won the Future Champions Novice Hurdle Christmas 2014 on heavy (beating Sub Lieutenant and Golantilla) and also took the Irish Gold Cup at Leopardstown in February on soft ground. These Grade 1s don't come along every week and I think the million quid bonus is a great idea and would have expected the top staying chasers to be aiming for it. Is this just more evidence of Cheltenham (or certainly the three spring fesivals) being the be all and end all of the NH scene?

Oddy, you have stolen my thunder in a way as I was going to say that the rain that has come down round here these past 24hours can only make the going at Haydock this weekend at best very soft. I only live about 20miles from the course and if they've had the amount we have had then bog snorkelling will be more apt. To which I know see you comment on Sixing John and totally agree with your comment on 'all roads'.
I'm going to Haydock this wend so would have looked forward to seeing SJohn, but hey ho, I'll still enjopy the day out there...

 

[Sir Barney Chuckles]

I much prefer the Championship status of Cheltenham to anything the Flat has to offer. Show me a single flat festival where it is truly a clash of the best horses.

Yes, very fair point, but what about the other 51 weeks of the NH term??? Do people want 1 'fantastic' week and 51 'ordinary' ones?!?

With the introduction of all the ‘new’ races at the Cheltenham Festival, as well, I’d also question whether ‘a clash of the best horses’ takes place in all instances anymore. How many take the ‘easier option’ rather than a clash at true Championship class – like going for the ‘Mares Hurdle’ rather than the Champion or Stayers, the ‘Ryainair’ rather than the CGC or the ‘Mares Novice Hurdle’ rather than the ‘Supreme’ or ‘Neptune’, etc, etc...

 

[CaptainPops]

Morning all

I can't help feeling a little disappointed that Sizing John won't be coming over for the Betfair Chase at Haydock due to the ground. He won the Future Champions Novice Hurdle Christmas 2014 on heavy (beating Sub Lieutenant and Golantilla) and also took the Irish Gold Cup at Leopardstown in February on soft ground. These Grade 1s don't come along every week and I think the million quid bonus is a great idea and would have expected the top staying chasers to be aiming for it. Is this just more evidence of Cheltenham (or certainly the three spring fesivals) being the be all and end all of the NH scene?

I have to agree it' a shame that Sizing John has been withdrawn and has put a bit of a dampner on the contest. i am also surprised there are only 6 runners.

I think some sort of further incentive needs to be offered to owners to running there horses more frequently. I am not sure how you can reasonably implement this as its not all about prize money as we see here with a £1 million pot up for grabs and only 6 runners....but whilst I absolutely love cheltenham it is clear that national hunt racing does suffer a bit..less racing in the week might help? I mean who really gives two hoots about some of these tin pot meetings? Maybe also to qualify for the cheltenham gold cup you have to have raced a minimum amount of times?

 

[OddDog]

12:10 Market Rasen Euxton Lane 8/1

I was very impressed by the way Euxton lane moved through his bumper at Bangor, tanking along before being VERY tenderly handled by Wayne Hutchinson to finish 3rd. That run was no doubt about educating him and, assuming he has schooled well, today could be the day with Leighton Aspell booked. Trevor Hemmings has got a nice one here I reckon and I think he will go very well today at around the 8/1 mark.

That'll teach me to put one up on the daily thread - never travelled a yard today

 

[gazboy]

British art, master singer, tranquil star, paddy Plex lucky 15 newcastle

 

[Doalittle]

In short ‘yes’.

Said last week that there is just no pattern or flow to the NH season anymore and certainly not like on the Flat. It’s simply all about the Cheltenham Festival (and to a lesser extent Aintree and Punchestown) – this is not healthy for the sport, I’m afraid. And don't get me started about how much the former has turned into a complete parody of itself to boot!

100% agree.

National Hunt racing has become geared towards the best horses running against each other once in England and once to a lesser extent in Ireland and the rest of it is just a game of finding a race where their horse will be a short priced favourite. Awful stuff to be a punter. Having given up ante post punting (Not by choice) it has really dawned on me how pointless the majority of the season is.

 

[Ron]

4.05 Newcastle. Form lines don't seem to be getting me anywhere but there is enough in the form book to suggest that Bowson Fred should be too good for these. After being involved in a bit of scrimmaging he pulled out to challenge on the outside and would have won but for the late surge of Kimberella who subsequently ran well to finish only 4l behind Marsha in a G3 and ran OK in a G1 beaten 11l by Harry Angel. He also has some other decent form. This is way ahead of anything the others have produced. He is a disappointing 5/1 for a horse that hasn't won in his last 18 races but, with my blindfold on, I can't see him out of the frame and hopefully will get into the winners' enclosure. Bowson Fred ew at 5/1 (freely available)

Someone has been reading the forum. Now best price 7/2, 3/1 with some

 

[OddDog]

Yes, very fair point, but what about the other 51 weeks of the NH term??? Do people want 1 'fantastic' week and 51 'ordinary' ones?!?
With the introduction of all the ‘new’ races at the Cheltenham Festival, as well, I’d also question whether ‘a clash of the best horses’ takes place in all instances anymore. How many take the ‘easier option’ rather than a clash at true Championship class – like going for the ‘Mares Hurdle’ rather than the Champion or Stayers, the ‘Ryainair’ rather than the CGC or the ‘Mares Novice Hurdle’ rather than the ‘Supreme’ or ‘Neptune’, etc, etc...

100% agree.

National Hunt racing has become geared towards the best horses running against each other once in England and once to a lesser extent in Ireland and the rest of it is just a game of finding a race where their horse will be a short priced favourite. Awful stuff to be a punter. Having given up ante post punting (Not by choice) it has really dawned on me how pointless the majority of the season is.

As Mr Corbyn will tell you, it is easy being in opposition and just bad-mouthing the status quo. So how would you plan the season then chaps?

I am very much OK with the season climaxing at Cheltenham, look at what we have over the next few Saturdays:

Haydock / Ascot double header with the Betfair Chase, Ascot Hurdle and 1965 Chase
Newbury / Newcastle double header with the Hennessy and Fighting Fifth Hurdle
Sandown / Aintree double header with the Tingle Creek and Becher Chase
Cheltenham International meeting
Ascot featuring the old Bula Hurdle
Then you are into the Christmas programme

I don't see what is boring about that little lot?

 

[Bostonbob]

Yes, very fair point, but what about the other 51 weeks of the NH term??? Do people want 1 'fantastic' week and 51 'ordinary' ones?!?

With the introduction of all the ‘new’ races at the Cheltenham Festival, as well, I’d also question whether ‘a clash of the best horses’ takes place in all instances anymore. How many take the ‘easier option’ rather than a clash at true Championship class – like going for the ‘Mares Hurdle’ rather than the Champion or Stayers, the ‘Ryainair’ rather than the CGC or the ‘Mares Novice Hurdle’ rather than the ‘Supreme’ or ‘Neptune’, etc, etc...

You know that's not true Barney. We have 18 Grade One races in England, Scotland and Wales that are not Cheltenham Festival races. 12 at the Festival. They're not all fantastic but they are top level racing. They're spread throughout the season reasonably equitably. There's 32 Irish grade ones as well.

You make a fair point about dilution of competition via additional distances. I think that's fair. Surely, we have to make the same comment - and i'd argue strongly it is more endemic - in the flat game with flat group ones through UK,Ireland and France at 5f, 6f, 7f, 8f, 10f,12f,14f, 16f, 20f.

 

[Benvenuto Cellini]

Japanese racing as a product is so much better than ours. There will be over 100,000 in attendance at the Japan Cup on Saturday and probably about 200m bet on the race. The entrance fee is about £1.50 I think and there is 80 restaurants to choose from.

This years Derby and Oaks winners, plus two previous Derby winners, and the best older horses in the country who have been running against each other in the top races at trips from 1m2 to 2m, are in the field.

The top horses all wear different colours, no elite trainer/breeder monopoly like here. The prize money is great and non triers are a non issue because you get hammered. Its just a completely different class and the horses are getting better all the time as well.

I could have bet something in the bog ground 3(now 2) horse G1 race at Haydock on saturday but my ton went to Japan instead, I have backed one at Ascot though.

 

[Doalittle]

As Mr Corbyn will tell you, it is easy being in opposition and just bad-mouthing the status quo. So how would you plan the season then chaps?

I am very much OK with the season climaxing at Cheltenham, look at what we have over the next few Saturdays:

Haydock / Ascot double header with the Betfair Chase, Ascot Hurdle and 1965 Chase
Newbury / Newcastle double header with the Hennessy and Fighting Fifth Hurdle
Sandown / Aintree double header with the Tingle Creek and Becher Chase
Cheltenham International meeting
Ascot featuring the old Bula Hurdle
Then you are into the Christmas programme

I don't see what is boring about that little lot?

I don't think it's a scheduling issue. Mor a cultural one where by trainers have a fear of running their horses against the best on more than one or two occasions during the season. All too often we see the entries for big races look spectacular but come the day more than half the marquee names have been scratched. I don't know how to change it if I'm honest, maybe we're stuck with what we've got. Hopefully the new card at Leopardstown in February will change it but I'd be highly sceptical.

 

[OddDog]

I don't think it's a scheduling issue. Mor a cultural one where by trainers have a fear of running their horses against the best on more than one or two occasions during the season. All too often we see the entries for big races look spectacular but come the day more than half the marquee names have been scratched. I don't know how to change it if I'm honest, maybe we're stuck with what we've got. Hopefully the new card at Leopardstown in February will change it but I'd be highly sceptical.

I know what you mean - certain trainers always seem loathe to pitch their stars against other talented horses anywhere but at Cheltenham (whether it is the trainers or the owners decision, I'm not so sure - I know what Sir Barney thinks though ). The worst is anything Mullins / Ricci - they always avoid anything of merit until the festivals. But I do think the Potts (god rest their souls), Munir / Soude, and the likes of Colin Tizzard and Paul Nicholls have never been afraid of running their horses against all comers. Not sure about Mr Henderson but I'd have him closer to the Mullins camp on this one