Thoughts On Schteve...?
- Thread starter TheJudeanPeoplesFront
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The problem is not so much the manager but the philosophy underpinning the club around player recruitment, until Ashley changes this the club is not going to move forwards and improve, bringing in young foreign players and looking for future profit has proved to be a failure, Villa have gone this route as well and reaped the rewards even more so!! It also is no good playing great football when you don't score and the defense is terrible, you only have to look at Leicester to see what a difference the one goal scorer can make, January is going to be a critical transfer window and the club have to spend on quality this time as the current squad will be headed down. I don't agree with the idea that playing good looking football and going down beats winning ugly, the only thing that matters now is points not how they are achieved, McClaren should then sit in that boardroom and be demanding real investment in the team, that should be the real battle that he fights as that is the real future of the club.
After 11 games last season we had 13 points I think, so not way ahead but way behind.
You lot remind me of Leicester last season, just waiting to click, the football is there but the results are not coming. You have had a tendency, for about 5 years now to completely capitulate if you go more than 1 goal behind, and that's probably due to the lack of leaders you have on the pitch... I mean, come on let's count them...
1. Mitrovic
2. ...
Nobody is showing anything in terms of fight other than the kid you've just fetched in. The talent is there, but where's the engine who'll get you going?
Steve Mac will need a good few windows to bring a top squad together, the main issue with that being, when a window is open your better players tend to fly out of it and that's where Ashley can ruin the entire plan.
You've just loaned a defender to Wolves no? Maybe put 2+2 together here to get 5 but aren't you sniffing around their CF Afobe? Will Austin be sold by QPR in January to get some money back? Bet your last quid he will and Bournemouth will spend whatever it takes to get him, so you can get in on that mix. You've also got a kid slotting them in for fun in League One, send him to QPR/Wolves as part of the deal, he's way above league one stations anyhow.
It's a lot of work to be doing and you'll have to be patient with the guy, any other manager who comes in will still require the same jobs doing to get regular results. You have no firefighting grafters, so ugly football just won't work with this group.
1. Mitrovic
2. ...
Nobody is showing anything in terms of fight other than the kid you've just fetched in. The talent is there, but where's the engine who'll get you going?
Steve Mac will need a good few windows to bring a top squad together, the main issue with that being, when a window is open your better players tend to fly out of it and that's where Ashley can ruin the entire plan.
You've just loaned a defender to Wolves no? Maybe put 2+2 together here to get 5 but aren't you sniffing around their CF Afobe? Will Austin be sold by QPR in January to get some money back? Bet your last quid he will and Bournemouth will spend whatever it takes to get him, so you can get in on that mix. You've also got a kid slotting them in for fun in League One, send him to QPR/Wolves as part of the deal, he's way above league one stations anyhow.
It's a lot of work to be doing and you'll have to be patient with the guy, any other manager who comes in will still require the same jobs doing to get regular results. You have no firefighting grafters, so ugly football just won't work with this group.
Yeah we have shown enough progression for me, start of the season wasn't great but personally I've seen enough in the last 4/5 games (half the games we've played) to be confident it will all click soon. Seem to remember Pard's had a little run in December last season which shot us up the league and I think we will do the same again over then next month or two. All hinges on January window though now. Need to bolster the defense and ship out the dead wood (how long have we all said that) but if we can get the right business done (bring in the correct players/personalities and not sell our best players) then we will be fine, if not it will be a similar second half of the season which could leave us in trouble, which wouldn't be McClaren's fault.
Stick with him, I just believe in giving people time. He started terribly and the football was no better than previously. Now we seem to be improving. I am not going to get carried away one way or the other. Pardew had just as good spells in terms of the football played, but I suppose you'd have to be brutally honest and say when he did, we got results. I think the results are not too far away if we can stick with it, and not lose confidence from the results. The issue will be the same as Pardew had previously and every other manager under Ashley. Big promises followed by big sales and no replacements. If that happens McClaren will struggle. However there did seem to be a different approach from the board in that he appeared to be ready to spend. If we back up the last window and invest heavily in the defence and other key positions (CM and ST), then yeah I think we'll do alright.
I think we have another capable manager in McClaren, but it always comes down to the tools you give them to do the job in football. We have conceded a lot of goals because we have poor defenders. Its not his fault. You lose goals, you lose a lot of football matches. Yes we have lacked a cutting edge under him, but again he needs another more experienced striker. In fairness to the board it is difficult to do it all in one go, and difficult to find buyers for Willo, Cisse, Goufran, Marveaux etc. Therefore you are restricted by what you can do with players coming in. No club is just going to have 50 odd players on the books with 6 or 7 just picking up wages.
All in all, its a patience thing on all fronts and hopefully a continued change in attitude from above. The manager is just a pawn in the game really and doesn't decide where the club goes.
I think we have another capable manager in McClaren, but it always comes down to the tools you give them to do the job in football. We have conceded a lot of goals because we have poor defenders. Its not his fault. You lose goals, you lose a lot of football matches. Yes we have lacked a cutting edge under him, but again he needs another more experienced striker. In fairness to the board it is difficult to do it all in one go, and difficult to find buyers for Willo, Cisse, Goufran, Marveaux etc. Therefore you are restricted by what you can do with players coming in. No club is just going to have 50 odd players on the books with 6 or 7 just picking up wages.
All in all, its a patience thing on all fronts and hopefully a continued change in attitude from above. The manager is just a pawn in the game really and doesn't decide where the club goes.
Would I rather see us go back to the Pardew brand of 'football'? No effort, no passion, no clue? Not a chance.
We have had a poor start, but you can see exactly what McClaren is trying to do. We have played Man City, Chelsea, Southampton, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich off the park. The results will come. You can see the effort and desire from the players. The ability is starting to show as well. It came together against Norwich and it will come together again. We are creating chances and look dangerous. Start putting them away and we will win games.
We have had a poor start, but you can see exactly what McClaren is trying to do. We have played Man City, Chelsea, Southampton, Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich off the park. The results will come. You can see the effort and desire from the players. The ability is starting to show as well. It came together against Norwich and it will come together again. We are creating chances and look dangerous. Start putting them away and we will win games.
What happened to the "I'd rather we play well and lose" mentality. I'd take this football over any of the **** that Pardew and Carver provided - Of whom both nearly got us relegated anyways! McLaren will come good with more investment in January. Another CB desperately needed!
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Must admit I'm still of this mentality. I just want to be entertained and enjoy my Saturday out more than anything. Obviously you can't just continually lose, you won't be playing well if you do. I do care little about the PL show though.
Query though - You'd take this football over the spell we had when HBA, Ba, Cisse, Tiote, Cabaye were flying in our run to 5th before Mike pulled the plug? Not sure Steve has got near those heights yet I have to say.
You touch on the main point for Carver, Pardew, McClaren, Hughton or any other manager - you have to have investment and have the players. Without it, its not really fair to judge anyone. So far McClaren has been backed like no previous manager. If that continues obviously he'll have no excuses. However if gets the rug pulled like the rest then I don't think its fair to say "look at the football its ****" or otherwise.
The key is the club ethos.
Steve can regard himself as unlucky in the derby and in running into Butland. Call that 4 - 5 points that he could think himself reasonably entitled to.
I expect we will leapfrog Bournemouth out of the relegation zone and not go back in it
I expect we will leapfrog Bournemouth out of the relegation zone and not go back in it
Indeed but the only way we will continue to be is if Mike Ashley allows it. If we get our best players sold and don't replace them, then we will end up back where we were.
Its a no brainer for me in giving McClaren time. Why appoint him otherwise?
The thing is we are being consistent in the level of performance. The results will come.
Steve's alright. There's better out there, but not available to our club in its' current state, and there's also much, much worse. He's got us playing SOME really good football. I know Norwich were poor, but we still slammed 6 in. Is it really his fault he's been left with Dummett, Coloccini and Saylor? He's finally got shot of Willo, so things are going the right way. I also think his influence will grow - he's an actual football man, unlike the other two clowns on the "board". Thauvin, I reckon, will be the instigator of a significant shift in the balance of power and will turn out to have a silver lining - the fact Carr seemed to insist we got this kid, who's somehow worse than both Gouffran and Cabella (two other Carr purchases), will not go down well with the owner. I suspect the next backroom shift will be in Carr moving out to something else, or a new head of scouting coming in, and I'd be happy to have Steve overseeing this stuff. He's learned from the best, been in the highest profile job in England, plus has taken on well respected coaches plus Steve Black.
Perhaps it really does take time? I certainly think this coaching set up needs to be in place for a minimum of another 18 months, but in all honesty it's Newcastle United under Ashley - if Pardew survived for 4 years, it's best not to think about alternatives until the day Steve walks out.
Perhaps it really does take time? I certainly think this coaching set up needs to be in place for a minimum of another 18 months, but in all honesty it's Newcastle United under Ashley - if Pardew survived for 4 years, it's best not to think about alternatives until the day Steve walks out.
I normally give players time, but you're right about Thauvin. Nothing I have seen of him convinces me. We basically wasted money.
Thauvin's a confidence player, no good in a relegation scrap. I can only assume you bought him on the off chance you'd leap into the top half immediately. Ben Arfa and Cabella both the same, if they can be focal points and adorned, then they'll play well, but they don't wanna defend or play the game when things are going bad. Not the type of player you need right now.
Thauvin though, he's absolutely incredible on his day and can be the sort of player who'll thrive in an attacking team. At present, you're struggling at the other end, so he's a luxury that you can't afford.
They were saying on the Ligue 1 review that Cabella's transfer is now permanent apparently after 12 matches, so he's effectively off your books now.
Thauvin though, he's absolutely incredible on his day and can be the sort of player who'll thrive in an attacking team. At present, you're struggling at the other end, so he's a luxury that you can't afford.
They were saying on the Ligue 1 review that Cabella's transfer is now permanent apparently after 12 matches, so he's effectively off your books now.
Seems to be a general theme with French players. They don't fancy a scrap.
Will be interesting to see what the fee is (if any) for this is if Marseille take up the option. Personally, I think he might have been able to do a job for us once the new system gets going as I think that would have suited his game. I think both him and Thauvin could do well in a team playing passing football - once that team was playing with more confidence and there was less defensive pressure. We aren't good enough to carry luxury players at the minute, and I'm not sure any prem team can afford to carry two luxury players, but as part of a squad then both could have provided options.
But it looks like it is out of our hands now anyway. If the option is taken up and a fee is involved then I hope the money is re-invested in January. We have more pressing short-term needs than players like Cabella that would make the team more solid (and less likely to fall apart when things go against us), so it could prove to be a great opportunity. Opportunities are no good unless they are taken though (as our recent performances have shown).
They're few and far between mate.
I see Flamini isn't getting his contract renewed at Arsenal, he'd do a job for you if you could get him on a free in January.
Not sure he'd fit Ashley's model, even if it has been changed, with him being over 30. Even if he has decided we are going to go shopping in the next level up than we were when Pardew was manager he still seems to be going for players who are a bit younger.
Also, not sure what his pace is like. That's a genuine 'don't know' rather than saying he is slow, but we desperately need someone with a lot more pace than Colo. For all his faults, Colo can still be a decent defender against slower paced attacks. The problem is that there aren't many teams with a slow attack in the prem.
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