The var thread

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Libby said:
Anything that 'impedes an opponent with contact' is a foul according to the FA's website.
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Yes which is why I said it could have been a pen. However it was down to interpretation by the on field referee which is why it wasn't over turned. VAR is not for overturning calls like this one. He slipped and accidentally made contact with Kane. He did technically impede him so the call could have gone either way but it wasn't a clear and obvious error.
 
tomw24 said:
Yes which is why I said it could have been a pen. However it was down to interpretation by the on field referee which is why it wasn't over turned. VAR is not for overturning calls like this one. He slipped and accidentally made contact with Kane. He did technically impede him so the call could have gone either way but it wasn't a clear and obvious error.
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But how can taking both strikers legs away from him, not be a clear and obvious foul?

That exact incident is a free kick anywhere else on the field. It was stone wall for me. Spurs should feel very aggrieved.
 
Osvaldorama said:
But how can taking both strikers legs away from him, not be a clear and obvious foul?

That exact incident is a free kick anywhere else on the field. It was stone wall for me. Spurs should feel very aggrieved.
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I've not seen the incident, but usually the referee has to believe there was intent in bringing the man down, plus was Kane in control of the ball? I know of two Saints keepers who brought down strikers where the ref decided the striker didn't have control and the keeper hadn't committed a foul.

Forster on Steven Fletcher during the 8-0 and Stekelenburg on Falcao** during the 3-1

**tbh, I've always thought Falcao dived anyway, after seeing that incident loads of times.
 
TheSecondStain said:
I've not seen the incident, but usually the referee has to believe there was intent in bringing the man down, plus was Kane in control of the ball? I know of two Saints keepers who brought down strikers where the ref decided the striker didn't have control and the keeper hadn't committed a foul.

Forster on Steven Fletcher during the 8-0 and Stekelenburg on Falcao** during the 3-1

**tbh, I've always thought Falcao dived anyway, after seeing that incident loads of times.
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No they don't <ok>
 
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tomw24 said:
Yes which is why I said it could have been a pen. However it was down to interpretation by the on field referee which is why it wasn't over turned. VAR is not for overturning calls like this one. He slipped and accidentally made contact with Kane. He did technically impede him so the call could have gone either way but it wasn't a clear and obvious error.
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I’m surprised Tom. This sounds like you are suggesting “accidentally made contact” doesn’t have to be a foul.

I also thought VAR was introduced for penalties, goals and red card offences, in which case it is exactly for calls like this one.
 
Isn't it the case that the use of VAR in England is trying to learn from the problems they had in Germany who went a bit too far...we are trying to use a lighter touch. And this is still a learning curve...the use of VAR in the future may be different following review at the end of this season. My objection to VAR was not total, but only that it mustn't interfere too much with the flow of the game. It will always be impossible to get every decision 'correct' because often there isn't one correct answer....comes down to opinion (as discussions about the right or wrong of penalties on here prove)….seems reasonable to me to leave matters of opinion to the official on the field.

And banging my drum again: use of slo-mo can be counterproductive as it can make some things look worse than they are....for example...falls can look like dives when at full speed it is obvious the player going down had little choice.
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
Isn't it the case that the use of VAR in England is trying to learn from the problems they had in Germany who went a bit too far...we are trying to use a lighter touch. And this is still a learning curve...the use of VAR in the future may be different following review at the end of this season. My objection to VAR was not total, but only that it mustn't interfere too much with the flow of the game. It will always be impossible to get every decision 'correct' because often there isn't one correct answer....comes down to opinion (as discussions about the right or wrong of penalties on here prove)….seems reasonable to me to leave matters of opinion to the official on the field.

And banging my drum again: use of slo-mo can be counterproductive as it can make some things look worse than they are....for example...falls can look like dives when at full speed it is obvious the player going down had little choice.
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For me, it is about steps in the right direction. Reducing the number of glaringly poor (or missed) decisions, should be the aim. We seem to have tried to deliver perfection in one step.

I am ok with technology and VAR being used, however as you said, it mustn’t stop the flow of the game.... I may have mention 10-15 seconds to make a decision before (not necessarily with the game stopped).
 
fatletiss said:
I’m surprised Tom. This sounds like you are suggesting “accidentally made contact” doesn’t have to be a foul.

I also thought VAR was introduced for penalties, goals and red card offences, in which case it is exactly for calls like this one.
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All I'm saying is that I don't think it was a clear and obvious error so that's why a penalty wasn't given by VAR.
 
This won't be popular, but I can already see the day coming when VAR will be the referee and will relay messages instantly to the ref on the field. It will be instant because the decisions will be made by AI.
You may not believe it it now, but give it 10 years. Probably less before the technology is perfectly capable.
 
TheSecondStain said:
This won't be popular, but I can already see the day coming when VAR will be the referee and will relay messages instantly to the ref on the field. It will be instant because the decisions will be made by AI.
You may not believe it it now, but give it 10 years. Probably less before the technology is perfectly capable.
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I'm hoping that will be the case for offsides, could do it with current technology with enough investment in it, but we're a looong way of using that for red cards. That would require creative thinking. I think it would require a level of awareness from that AI that will probably be banned in the future, but that's a different discussion.
 
The step after that would be someone fixing matches by tapping into the system.

Repeating myself I know....but just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Too much worship of technology....should be a servant and used as we want to...not something we blindly follow because it is there so must be used.
 
TheSecondStain said:
This won't be popular, but I can already see the day coming when VAR will be the referee and will relay messages instantly to the ref on the field. It will be instant because the decisions will be made by AI.
You may not believe it it now, but give it 10 years. Probably less before the technology is perfectly capable.
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Even Fifa 19 gets decision wrong! Haha

But I agree. Technology is going that way and could certainly make truly unbiased decisions.
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
The step after that would be someone fixing matches by tapping into the system.

Repeating myself I know....but just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Too much worship of technology....should be a servant and used as we want to...not something we blindly follow because it is there so must be used.
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One thing I absolutely DON'T do is worship technology. But, I am well aware of what it can and will be able to do better than error prone humans. Got your sandals ready to throw into the machine? :rolleyes:
 
VocalMinority said:
I'm hoping that will be the case for offsides, could do it with current technology with enough investment in it, but we're a looong way of using that for red cards. That would require creative thinking. I think it would require a level of awareness from that AI that will probably be banned in the future, but that's a different discussion.
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That's true, it may well be so. But the business entertainment of football has only itself to blame. Post match analysis became a 'big thing'. Aided by slow motion action, it revealed hidden secrets in cheating, diving, along with the better skills in football. And we got a big taste for it. It made us all 5 minute experts, able to give a half decent opinion. But it also eventually meant that the officials' human eyes weren't good enough. And once technology is introduced it won't be stopped because there is too much money at stake. Take the mega money out of football and the tech will leave.
 
Libby said:
Sounds horrendous, I wouldn't want that much reliance in AI in any walk of life.
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Too late, it’s already here, and doing more damage than we can imagine. Has already been used in election rigging etc.

‘The singularity’ will be within our liftimes, I reckon. (The moment AI is clever enough to design itself. Then who knows what will happen)
 
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