The Taylor Report

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hotbovril

hotbovril

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Given that the evidence studied to arrive at the findings in the Taylor Report has now been irrefutably proven to have been doctored, is there not a legal precedent to ignore its recommendations and the subsequent regulations imposed on football clubs? Anyone with an IQ over 10 can see that the absolutely tragic loss of life was caused by the presence of high steel fencing so should clubs now mount a challenge to the regulations full stop rather than pursue an amendment to them to reintroduce standing areas?

It seems to me that the vast majority of football fans want to see the return (or at least a partial return) of the good old terraces, so why are we waiting?
 
The clubs would have to pay significant money to reintroduce safe terraced areas, all that money would be passed onto the supporters.

The density of terracing would never be what it was like before. The authorities would not allow fans to be squeezed in like sardines, so the club's might not get much of an increased capacity/attendance.

It only really makes financial easy sense in new stadiums/stands where it can be purpose built & planned out properly.

I think the misty eyed yearning for terracing would soon subside once fans realised their terrace tickets could very well end up being at a "premium" and cost more than a seated ticket.
 
CBK said:
The clubs would have to pay significant money to reintroduce safe terraced areas, all that money would be passed onto the supporters.

The density of terracing would never be what it was like before. The authorities would not allow fans to be squeezed in like sardines, so the club's might not get much of an increased capacity/attendance.

It only really makes financial easy sense in new stadiums/stands where it can be purpose built & planned out properly.

I think the misty eyed yearning for terracing would soon subside once fans realised their terrace tickets could very well end up being at a "premium" and cost more than a seated ticket.
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So why is this not the case in Germany?
 
Because those clubs generally have a link to their communities, cities and supporters. They seemingly don't just see their fans as cashmachines to exploit.

Plus, they never did away with terracing in the first place and when new stadiums were built or modified, it was factored in.

Plus, Germany is a different country to the United Kingdom.

It's over there. We are over here.
 
And how do you define a "safe" terraced area? Ripping out seats would have a cost, yes, but surely not one that would result in a premium.
 
Is there huge support to reintroduce terraces? This is a genuine question, as everyone I speak to don't have much eagerness to see them reintroduced.
 
To be honest, the doctored evidence is pretty immaterial. There were a succession of incidents in the 80s that told us fans standing was less safe than fans seating. The Taylor report offered a series of recommendations that some viewed as closing the stable door after the horse had bolted. Others saw it as an opportunity to prevent another disaster.

In the cold light of day I think most of us can see the real solution would be to make standing safer rather than enforce seating. But in all honesty who would be brave enough to recommend it? One incident. One loss of life and the person promoting standing would become a public scapegoat.
 
There wouldn't be much of an increase in capacity by reintroducing standing because there would be barriers breaking the crowd into safe blocks. So little advantage to the club financially and would involve the club in structural changes (probably minimal but still costing something) and a safety evaluation of the barrier systems. There is a strong demand from some fans for standing areas, but I suspect most fans prefer sitting (especially as they are used to it). I fall into a subgroup who wouldn't mind it being reintroduced as long as it doesn't affect me.
 
CBK said:
Because those clubs generally have a link to their communities, cities and supporters. They seemingly don't just see their fans as cashmachines to exploit.

Plus, they never did away with terracing in the first place and when new stadiums were built or modified, it was factored in.

Plus, Germany is a different country to the United Kingdom.

It's over there. We are over here.
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Bit silly to suggest that German corporations don't care to maximize profits.
 
Joe said:
Bit silly to suggest that German corporations don't care to maximize profits.
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So why don't they rip their fans off as much as English clubs? Their TV deal isn't as big as Sky's for the Prem, yet they keep ticket prices lower and on the pitch, produce good teams attracting good players.
 
CBK said:
So why don't they rip their fans off as much as English clubs? Their TV deal isn't as big as Sky's for the Prem, yet they keep ticket prices lower and on the pitch, produce good teams attracting good players.
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Supply and demand. That is the answer to every question about pricing in a free market economy.
 
Joe said:
Supply and demand. That is the answer to every question about pricing in a free market economy.
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Not to mention the often forgotten issue that Germany got a whole set of new stadia/stadium upgrades through the 2006 world cup which means they can have massive crowd income with no stadium debt to pay off .
 
Turning up an hour before kick off to stand in the freezing cold to make sure I get a decent standing spot only for a basketball team on a day trip to stand in front of me.
I would be shocked if its more than a vocal minority who want the return of the terrace.

Having said all that I think it's time that clubs accept the will of some choosing to stand and should create blocks reserved for those who wish to stand during the match.
It's pretty much an unwritten rule that if you're in the back sections of the Northam or Itchen corner or the vast majority of away games you'll be on your feet. Fans standing and singing helps to create a better atmosphere.

I hope therefore that ground regulations can be relaxed to enable clubs to open blocks of seats reserved for those who wish to stand.

It would be interesting to see how popular these blocks would become.
 
Joe said:
So why is this not the case in Germany?
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Each standing position also has a seat because European football regulations insist on all-seater stadiums. It means they are not able to get any more through the gates and each person is allocated a set space which would be equal to a seating area I guess.

From a club's perspective, its not cost effective to do it because they wouldn't receive any extra income from their investment.

Also, I know this doesn't effect other clubs but there is no way that Liverpool will ever entertain the idea during our lifetimes.
 
Being in my mid 40s, I remember terracing and it's not all it's cracked up to be (in my opinion). Give me a nice seat without a 7 foot guy standing in front of me anytime.

I agree with Gerrez - I could not see Liverpool EVER re-introducing it. Also, as someone who watched those terrible events unravel on TV 24 years ago, I really don't want to ever witness that again - seating might have taken away a bit of the atmosphere, but it has greatly increased our chances of coming back from a football match.

Next time you are sitting on your relatively comfy seat without fencing ruining your view in the nice all seater stadium, remember what 96 fellow football fans had to though to get you that.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm on my soap box, but we should all be able to go to a football match and come home safely.

No 7
 
Sadly we are such a nanny state of a country I really do not think they will ever allow standing terraces at football grounds again.
It is a shame as I used to think it was a great atmosphere, even when dodging around pillars at the old dell. There is no doubt what has happened on a couple of occasions has been a tragedy. As usual they blame the fans when mostly it is because of other reasons.
I really cannot see the harm in having sections of football grounds allocated to standing terraces and I do not think it would be a very costly conversion. As for the pricing of the terraces....I really do not think there would be a great deal of difference in the pricing for the privilege, maybe over time but not at the onset.
However as previously said I would be very surprised if they reintroduced it in the higher leagues in the UK.
 
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