the summer of avoidance

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
S

Steveo77

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
1,869
500
113
so here we have 3 horses in Black Caviar, Frankel and Camelot who everyone would like to see race against each other, yet they all seem to be being aimed at different races.

this is why Horse Racing has a big problem.
At the start of the year I thought that it was fantastic that Frankel was being kept in training as a 4 year old. you know what at the moment I am beginning to think what was the point?

The Queen Anne will be another procession and surely Royal Ascot have got to really rethink their schedule. Why would you put the best horse in the world in the first race of a 5 day meeting??

Camelot v Frankel in the Eclipse. Wow that would have been a racing showpiece.
It will now be just another group 1 race. Similarly the Sussex Stakes.

I fear 2012 is turning out to be the summer of flat racing's missed opportunity.
 
I think Camelot at the weekend proved himself to be a colt of the highest class and with the potential to be a superstar. If he was mine then for the rest of the term I’d target him at the Irish Derby followed by the St Leger at Doncaster. Then following that, providing he came out of the race AOK, would loudly proclaim in the press that his last run of the year would be wherever Frankel ran next (almost certainly on Champions Day in either the Champion Stakes or QEII). Such a scenario was hinted at in ‘The Observer’ on Sunday and do you know what, people, call it a conspiracy theory if you like – but I doubt if Frankel’s connections would take up the challenge and more than likely would retire him forthwith.

There was in the ‘Racing Post’ a week or so ago a comment that Frankel would remain unbeaten if connections campaigned him with this view solely in mind rather than going for the more aggressive tactic of seeking out the best and challenging them accordingly. Personally I don’t think that the 3 named beasts will ever take each other on. Yes, would agree that it would be great to see Frankel and Camelot clash but would bet against it due to the policy of the formers connections who (a) seem unwilling to run him in anything more than a hundred or so miles from Newmarket and (b) they want him, above all else, to remain unbeaten. Coolmore, by contrast, are never ones to duck a challenge and I’m sure would be up for any such race.

In conclusion, the sporting equivalent of all this ducking would be if tomorrow Tiger Woods announced he would only play in the US Open, Lee Westwood only in The Open and Rory McIlroy only the USPGA!
 
Henry Cecil is far to cautious with Frankel. I still genuinely believe he would of won last years Derby, had he been given the opportunity.*

He claims Frankel's the best he's seen, yet he's scared to test the horse. It's ashame he ended up with Cecil, as he would of done much better with another trainer:biggrin:*
 
If Camelot wants to take Frankel on then I cannot see Sir Henry or the Prince ducking the challenge. I am sure they would love a clash between the two in the Champion Stakes, or before.
 
For what it's worth I think Frankel would blow Camelots doors off. TBF though I don't think there are many horses past or present who could match Frankel:biggrin:
 
Talks of Camelot going for the Irish Derby which would totally wipe out the Eclipse as there simply isn't enough time. The only other possible clash could be the Arc and I suspect there is no chance Frankel will be stepping up to 12f.

Btw I agree with Shergs <ok> don't think Camelot would get anywhere near Frankel
 
I'd love to see Frankel take on Camelot because a) it would be a fantastic race and b) you'd get a cracking price on Frankel.
 
Frankel may very well beat Camelot easily - he certainly would over a mile although I am not so sure over longer. the thing is if Frankel doesnt face the best horses of his era then how can anyone be sure and more to the point why bother keep him in training?
 
There is no doubt Frankel looks very impressive. The facts are though (and I'm sticking purely to facts) that, despite running 5 of his races on good going and two on good to firm, he has only once finished a race in faster than average time; and that was when he was almost caught by Zoffany over 8f.

So, impressive as most of his victories have been, it still leaves open to question that, if he was racing against a horse that ran faster than average, how would he cope?

I know I'll be bombarded with ridicule but I'm only pointing out facts. There are plenty of horses who beat the average times and all I'm saying is that Frankel has not been put to the test of running a truly run race that results in a time faster than average, apart from the one time he looked vulnerable.

If Frankel were to meet Camelot over 10f and Astrology was used to set a cracking pace throughout I think my money would be on Camelot. However, if this resulted in a fast time, with Frankel still winning impressively, any reservations that I have would be blown away and I would have actually enjoyed losing my money to have witnessed it.
 
Ron <ok>

What I still don't get is why do people in racing give a flying **** about times ? Workforce broke the Derby record that stood for years but still isn't rated. Harbinger smashed the Ascot track record but will simply be known as a course specialist. Amour Propre smashed the track record at Donny (I think) a couple of year back- who gives a **** about him now ?

waste of time WHO CARES - YAWN !!! RANT OVER
 
I was of the opinion at the time that Frankel was given a shocking ride at Royal Ascot, and it was a testament to him that he was still able to overcome such a ridiculous mid race move, and keep his unbeaten record in tact.

Other than that Frankel has rarely had the chance to set a fast time, I fancy if they get some decent ground for Ascot this year then he will set a good time :biggrin:*
 
rainbowview said:
Ron <ok>

What I still don't get is why do people in racing give a flying **** about times ? Workforce broke the Derby record that stood for years but still isn't rated. Harbinger smashed the Ascot track record but will simply be known as a course specialist. Amour Propre smashed the track record at Donny (I think) a couple of year back- who gives a **** about him now ?

waste of time WHO CARES - YAWN !!! RANT OVER
Click to expand...

Stone Of Folca is the fastest horse ever, Black Caviar has nothing on him :biggrin:
 
Frankel has faced the best horses of his generation though. He has just made them look distinctly ordinary.

There are no other 130+ monsters around for him to destroy. Beating the likes of Excelebration, Canford Cliffs, Immortal Verse etc pointless is as much as he can do. He can't beat them if they don't exist.

When he steps up to 10f, I hope he will get the opportunity to beat a similar calibre of horse, very good horses but not all time greats. No doubt people will still say he hasn't beaten anything then.

Lest we forget, Camelot is rated 124 at the moment. There are plenty in his own stable who are 'officially' better than him.
 
As for the St James' Palace, if Tom Queally had given that exact same ride to another horse they would have finished nearer first than last. I was underwhelmed at the time but on reflection it was an indication of his enormous ability that he was able to win regardless.

Absolute time is an irrelevant tool for gauging ability. There are so many factors that contribute to a fast absolute time: grounds, weather, pace, etc, as well as the actual horses ability. Frankel might not have done a fast absolute time but he has done some astonishing relative times, his Guineas being a case in point. If conditions fell his way then I have no doubt whatsoever that he would be capable of smashing a course record to smithereens.
 
It&#8217;s going to be interesting to see who apart from the Bullet Train goes against Frankel in the &#8216;Queen Anne&#8217; at Royal Ascot. At the moment 32 others are entered in the heat but would imagine that no more than half a dozen of these will materalise into actual entries. What they do afterwards though is going to determine Frankel&#8217;s everlasting legacy as a racehorse. I just hope they really up the ante and give the horse a chance to earn his place amongst the upper echelon of animals rather than continuing to hand pick Group 1&#8217;s over 8 furlongs against the same opposition.

Do agree that running the &#8216;Queen Anne&#8217; this year as race 1 at the meet is a bit dappy as most of those in attendance will still be all misty eyed at just having caught a glimpse of The Queen in the old Royal Procession.
 
Queen Anne should feature: Frankel, Excelebration, Strong Suit, Bullet Train and a couple of others.

God only knows where the terrific Windsor Palace goes. Will he run in the Queen Anne for Excelebration or the Prince Of Wales' for So You Think?!
 
Zenyatta said:
Queen Anne should feature: Frankel, Excelebration, Strong Suit, Bullet Train and a couple of others.

God only knows where the terrific Windsor Palace goes. Will he run in the Queen Anne for Excelebration or the Prince Of Wales' for So You Think?!
Click to expand...

Well there's an exciting race. Still it's another G1 for his CV.
 
Zenyatta said:
Queen Anne should feature: Frankel, Excelebration, Strong Suit, Bullet Train and a couple of others.

God only knows where the terrific Windsor Palace goes. Will he run in the Queen Anne for Excelebration or the Prince Of Wales' for So You Think?!
Click to expand...

They've come up with this theory/excuse, that SYTs defeats, are because they've been running him for stamina rather than speed, so I don't think he will get a pacemaker in the POW:biggrin:*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back