The Stupid Questions thread

[DHCanary]

Weight will also be a massive factor. Increasing fuel rates would obviously open the opportunity to more power from the combustion, but you would have to carry more fuel to accommodate it. So in simple terms twice the fuel would increase the race lap time from circa 5 seconds above quali time to 10 seconds above quali time. Even if you allow for a massive performance gains with the additional fuel allowance, its unlikely to fully neutralise the deficit incurred by the additional rate.

Now that you have raised the question, it would be interesting for one of the engineers within the sport to indicate (after the relevant trade offs) what the optimal fuel allowance would be for a GP, offsetting weight, race pace, increased tyre wear and fuel saving etc.

That's certainly a dimension to this season I hadn't considered. Last year, teams regularly raced with less than the 100 kg allowance on board. But with more downforce and more resilient tyres, a greater percentage of the race will be run at something close to "maximum attack". Is saving fuel rather than protecting tyres going to become a bigger factor in determining race pace?

 

[Mr.B]

That's certainly a dimension to this season I hadn't considered. Last year, teams regularly raced with less than the 100 kg allowance on board. But with more downforce and more resilient tyres, a greater percentage of the race will be run at something close to "maximum attack". Is saving fuel rather than protecting tyres going to become a bigger factor in determining race pace?

Not according to Andy Cowell at Mercedes...

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[DHCanary]

Not according to Andy Cowell at Mercedes...

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Perfect, and very interesting, answer! Thanks for that!

 

[Mr.B]

Perfect, and very interesting, answer! Thanks for that!

It was a complete fluke. I stumbled upon the video while watching something else, and I thought "hang on a minute - there's something going on here". So I came back to your post, and gradually realised the eerily perfect fit (so eerie that I ended up re-reading your post and re-watching the video several times to check that I wasn't missing something).

Finally, with quiet satisfaction at my accidental discovery and clever deduction, I reached the inevitable conclusion... "Blimey! DHCanary is Andy Cowell!"

 

[BrightLampShade]

It's been a while so why not, something that's been confusing me today.

Why don't teams use the oil/lubricants their PU was designed for? Now I get it's for financial reasons but does it really add up? Williams for example apparently lose 1s a lap through using Petrobras over Pentronas. How much will they then spent to try and get that second back, millions surely?
They're all at it so it must add up, but I have my doubts.

 

[allsaintchris.]

It's been a while so why not, something that's been confusing me today.

Why don't teams use the oil/lubricants their PU was designed for? Now I get it's for financial reasons but does it really add up? Williams for example apparently lose 1s a lap through using Petrobras over Pentronas. How much will they then spent to try and get that second back, millions surely?
They're all at it so it must add up, but I have my doubts.

They should use the oils from Petronas, but do what golfers do and just stick someone else's name on the actual product packaging!

I'm sure lots of golfers are sponsored by certain brands, but actually use clubs/balls from another maker but just have the products rebranded. So long as that person is winning and the casual watching public think he;s playing with a certain brand, they'll go and buy it. Suprisingly few would actually know the truth.

 

[ched999uk]

It's been a while so why not, something that's been confusing me today.

Why don't teams use the oil/lubricants their PU was designed for? Now I get it's for financial reasons but does it really add up? Williams for example apparently lose 1s a lap through using Petrobras over Pentronas. How much will they then spent to try and get that second back, millions surely?
They're all at it so it must add up, but I have my doubts.

I believe that Merc have an exclusive deal with Pentronas so Williams can't use the same fuels and lubs! It's an easy way to hobble the customer PU's and stay within the 'PUs must be the same' rule.

 

[Big Ern]

I believe that Merc have an exclusive deal with Pentronas so Williams can't use the same fuels and lubs! It's an easy way to hobble the customer PU's and stay within the 'PUs must be the same' rule.

yep, nail on head, and its their title sponsor. Maybe they can give them last season's oil formula.

 

[ched999uk]

yep, nail on head, and its their title sponsor. Maybe they can give them last season's oil formula.

They might if Ferrari and Red Bull start getting close

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

I believe that Merc have an exclusive deal with Pentronas so Williams can't use the same fuels and lubs! It's an easy way to hobble the customer PU's and stay within the 'PUs must be the same' rule.

Season has not even started yet , and I am fuming !!!

 

[ched999uk]

Season has not even started yet , and I am fuming !!!

Yep FIA and their wonderful rules!

 

[Smithers]

Its always been a bug bear for me - the insinuation of parity on customer engines. Admittedly the use of oil and lubricants for performance is estimated at circa 40BHP plus the option to run stronger engine settings for longer - this is by definition not equal. Like stated above, I simply don't understand why the rules allow this to happen and why a customer team cant use the manufacturers specification in its entirety and place a sponsor on the car with an a;alternative brand - its simply white labeling - it happens in every industry every day.

 

[BrightLampShade]

Who does Force India use? Can't seem to spot it.

 

[DHCanary]

Who does Force India use? Can't seem to spot it.

Petronas, but I'd suspect on older spec of fuel/lubricants than Mercedes get.

 

[El_Bando]

Who does Force India use? Can't seem to spot it.

Kingfisher Lager

 

[El_Bando]

Mclaren have just now announced Petrobras as their new fuel sponsor. last year when they had Honda Power() they were with BP/Castrol who are the same supplier as the works Renault team. But now they have Renualt power themselves they have Petrobras who also sponsor williams who behind the scenes use Petronas with their Mercedes engine.

get it?

 

[BrightLampShade]

So actually they're all using either Shell, Petronas or BP/Castrol. They just advertise otherwise?

 

[ched999uk]

I think FIA should have made rules so that all teams using same PU have to use same fuels, lubs, and coolant. Gearbox/bearings lubs etc all teams own choice. But to me all teams using same PU should receive parity in PU and it's running components, be that fuel or engine maps etc.

 

[TopClass]

So actually they're all using either Shell, Petronas or BP/Castrol. They just advertise otherwise?

So are McLaren using Petrobras or are they just a sponsor??

Surely that puts them at risk of underperformance on the engine side if they don’t use the same as the works team?

(Didn’t something similar happen when they used Mobil with the customer Merc engine in 2014?)

 

[ched999uk]

So are McLaren using Petrobras or are they just a sponsor??

Surely that puts them at risk of underperformance on the engine side if they don’t use the same as the works team?

(Didn’t something similar happen when they used Mobil with the customer Merc engine in 2014?)

I believe that Merc have an exclusive contract with their fuel and lubs supplier and the PU is setup for that fuel and none of the customers are allowed same spec!!!!!!! One of the reasons the other Merc PU teams can't keep up with works PU!!!!