The QPR Tactics Discussion Thread

[Stroller]

Beale is saying that he'd like to play with three CBs in future, presumably when he feels he has good enough wing backs and dependent on the fitness of Clarke-Salter. Laird is reportedly more a wing back than a full back and Paal looks like the same could be said of him. Dunne doesn't deserve to be left out, so this makes sense to me.

 

[awjm]

The front 3 that came on at Charlton high pressed. Armstrong with his acceleration and size did it very well. He looks like he's made for the task and enjoys it.

I'm not sure if you were there in person. I have watched the first home game live and the Charlton cup game.

That high press is noticeably gone. I'm not saying we are not pressing at all, at no point in the game. We do so when it makes sense to. However, we are noticeably standing off the opposition goalkeeper and not harassing the back line too much unless we're close enough to do so.

So, it seems to me that Beale is trying to shepherd the opposition into certain areas on the pitch where he feels we can trap them?

It is early days, though.

 

[rangercol]

Beale is saying that he'd like to play with three CBs in future, presumably when he feels he has good enough wing backs and dependent on the fitness of Clarke-Salter. Laird is reportedly more a wing back than a full back and Paal looks like the same could be said of him. Dunne doesn't deserve to be left out, so this makes sense to me.

I thought he said that he didn't want to play 3 at the back with only 3 senior centre backs in case one got injured, then he added that's exactly what's happened.
He said it may be something he'll try at some point.
Pretty sure he's always been a 4-3-3 or variation of coach.

 

[Stroller]

I thought he said that he didn't want to play 3 at the back with only 3 senior centre backs in case one got injured, then he added that's exactly what's happened.
He said it may be something he'll try at some point.
Pretty sure he's always been a 4-3-3 or variation of coach.

Boss Beale plans QPR formation change - West London Sport

 

[rangercol]

Boss Beale plans QPR formation change - West London Sport

He certainly seems more keen on a back 3 than he was in the pre match interview on the official site.
He said he'd like to see Richards, Roberts, Chair, Willock, Field, Amos and Steff all in the same team. Not sure how, in any formation.
Maybe he meant the same match day squad.
Will be interesting to see if he changes from 4-3-3.

 

[bobmid]

He certainly seems more keen on a back 3 than he was in the pre match interview on the official site.
He said he'd like to see Richards, Roberts, Chair, Willock, Field, Amos and Steff all in the same team. Not sure how, in any formation.
Maybe he meant the same match day squad.
Will be interesting to see if he changes from 4-3-3.

Yeah, not sure how they would all line up

 

[Hoop-Leif]

He certainly seems more keen on a back 3 than he was in the pre match interview on the official site.
He said he'd like to see Richards, Roberts, Chair, Willock, Field, Amos and Steff all in the same team. Not sure how, in any formation.
Maybe he meant the same match day squad.
Will be interesting to see if he changes from 4-3-3.

Think Steff may be more effective in goal than in his usual position.

 

[rangercol]

Think Steff may be more effective in goal than in his usual position.

I haven't seen anything other than brief highlights, but he's certainly getting mixed reviews from fans.
If Beale changes to 3-4-3 I'm not sure I'd play Steff as one of the two in midfield. Those two need energy as it always leaves you outnumbered in central midfield. That's why I'm not keen on it that formation. 3-5-2 is better, but only if you have the right personnel for it.

 

[awjm]

I haven't seen anything other than brief highlights, but he's certainly getting mixed reviews from fans.
If Beale changes to 3-4-3 I'm not sure I'd play Steff as one of the two in midfield. Those two need energy as it always leaves you outnumbered in central midfield. That's why I'm not keen on it that formation. 3-5-2 is better, but only if you have the right personnel for it.

You know, Johansen is definitely playing better than he did last season. He has actually been fairly effective and involved in each of the games I've seen him play (I've seen all games, so far). He also seems to keep his energy late into the game, which some other players don't.

However, I still think we need to look to the future and develop younger players. So, I would like to see more of Dozzell and Amos.

Dozzell has a brilliant pass and has it in his nature to take chances and try and get the ball to advanced players' feet. However, he is still lacking a bit defensively.

With Amos, he seems to keep creating chances (and often scoring) whenever he's on the pitch. Not sure what else he needs to do to get a place in the starting 11, to be honest. Obviously, when he's injury free!

So, with Johansen playing quite well, I wouldn't take him out just for the sake of it. But with any dip in form, I'd probably be bringing Amos on, with Dozzell on the bench.

However, being realistic, Beale has made him captain for a reason. Which means he'll always play, unless injured or a throwaway cup game.

 

[SW Ranger]

You know, Johansen is definitely playing better than he did last season. He has actually been fairly effective and involved in each of the games I've seen him play (I've seen all games, so far). He also seems to keep his energy late into the game, which some other players don't.

However, I still think we need to look to the future and develop younger players. So, I would like to see more of Dozzell and Amos.

Dozzell has a brilliant pass and has it in his nature to take chances and try and get the ball to advanced players' feet. However, he is still lacking a bit defensively.

With Amos, he seems to keep creating chances (and often scoring) whenever he's on the pitch. Not sure what else he needs to do to get a place in the starting 11, to be honest. Obviously, when he's injury free!

So, with Johansen playing quite well, I wouldn't take him out just for the sake of it. But with any dip in form, I'd probably be bringing Amos on, with Dozzell on the bench.

However, being realistic, Beale has made him captain for a reason. Which means he'll always play, unless injured or a throwaway cup game.

Out of interest awjm, who do you see as the leaders for us on the pitch now. We’ve been sadly lacking in the past and I’d be interested to hear who you are seeing directing players and cajoling performances from players in areas during the game.

 

[bobmid]

You know, Johansen is definitely playing better than he did last season. He has actually been fairly effective and involved in each of the games I've seen him play (I've seen all games, so far). He also seems to keep his energy late into the game, which some other players don't.

However, I still think we need to look to the future and develop younger players. So, I would like to see more of Dozzell and Amos.

Dozzell has a brilliant pass and has it in his nature to take chances and try and get the ball to advanced players' feet. However, he is still lacking a bit defensively.

With Amos, he seems to keep creating chances (and often scoring) whenever he's on the pitch. Not sure what else he needs to do to get a place in the starting 11, to be honest. Obviously, when he's injury free!

So, with Johansen playing quite well, I wouldn't take him out just for the sake of it. But with any dip in form, I'd probably be bringing Amos on, with Dozzell on the bench.

However, being realistic, Beale has made him captain for a reason. Which means he'll always play, unless injured or a throwaway cup game.

I'm not sure whether this is a wind up or not?!?!

 

[rangercol]

I'm not sure whether this is a wind up or not?!?!

 

[Stroller]

QPR must 'be careful' with Armstrong - West London Sport

 

[Steelmonkey]

An interesting article on how Beale is shaping the team...

What have we learned so far? – Analysis
Monday, 22nd Aug 2022 17:03 by Dan Lambert

Delighted to say that Dan Lambert has agreed to bring a series of his tactical analysis pieces to LFW this season, starting with this piece on the early changes and learnings from Michael Beale’s initial games in charge.


We’re now just under a month into ‘Bealeball’ since the league opener against Blackburn Rovers. Mixed results, and performances too, but within that there have been some positives and some good tactical tweaks to form the start of Beale’s identity. Nevertheless, the new manager has made it only one win from five, whilst gaining five points from a possible 15.

In this piece I have a look at the emerging patterns of play Beale has implemented so far in the first four league games.



1 - Shape, pressing and rest attack


Beale plays a quite unique system, a 4-3-2-1 and rather than with wingers he uses “roaming 10s” that play a lot more centrally. It’s a narrow shape, screening opposition sides to play out wide where they implement what’s known as pressing triggers, to create traps in wide areas where teams try to dominate. The main focus of Beale’s pragmatic off ball shape is compactness, an aim to prevent sides playing directly through central areas closer to the goal.

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4-3-2-1 narrow shape. Front three high (bigger distances to midfield three), the back four compact and the midfield three expansive due to the effect on the pressing triggers.

With the narrow shape and allowing the opposition to play out wide comes the pressing triggers, particularly with the use of the wide CMs depending on which side the ball is on. There are two things to note with the triggers. Having spoken to Andre Dozzell in an interview recently, I asked him about the pressing triggers and its effect with pitch geography or generic locations and it was interesting to hear the difference with who presses the wide FB/WB of the opposition. If its ahead of the front three, the ball near ten presses, but if it's behind the front line the ball near CM presses.

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Front two of the three screen the passing lane into Howson to stifle build-up. Options are sideways and Bola plays a ball to Giles. Amos (highlighted) is ready to press as the pass is the trigger.

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Giles tries to receive with an open body position but the pressure from Amos forces him backwards. Willock pushes m2m on Bola and Chair tucks inside to press Howson’s movement m2m.

Continued....

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/footb.../58324/what-have-we-learned-so-far-–-analysis

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

An interesting article on how Beale is shaping the team...

What have we learned so far? – Analysis
Monday, 22nd Aug 2022 17:03 by Dan Lambert

Delighted to say that Dan Lambert has agreed to bring a series of his tactical analysis pieces to LFW this season, starting with this piece on the early changes and learnings from Michael Beale’s initial games in charge.


We’re now just under a month into ‘Bealeball’ since the league opener against Blackburn Rovers. Mixed results, and performances too, but within that there have been some positives and some good tactical tweaks to form the start of Beale’s identity. Nevertheless, the new manager has made it only one win from five, whilst gaining five points from a possible 15.

In this piece I have a look at the emerging patterns of play Beale has implemented so far in the first four league games.



1 - Shape, pressing and rest attack


Beale plays a quite unique system, a 4-3-2-1 and rather than with wingers he uses “roaming 10s” that play a lot more centrally. It’s a narrow shape, screening opposition sides to play out wide where they implement what’s known as pressing triggers, to create traps in wide areas where teams try to dominate. The main focus of Beale’s pragmatic off ball shape is compactness, an aim to prevent sides playing directly through central areas closer to the goal.

You must log in or register to see images

4-3-2-1 narrow shape. Front three high (bigger distances to midfield three), the back four compact and the midfield three expansive due to the effect on the pressing triggers.

With the narrow shape and allowing the opposition to play out wide comes the pressing triggers, particularly with the use of the wide CMs depending on which side the ball is on. There are two things to note with the triggers. Having spoken to Andre Dozzell in an interview recently, I asked him about the pressing triggers and its effect with pitch geography or generic locations and it was interesting to hear the difference with who presses the wide FB/WB of the opposition. If its ahead of the front three, the ball near ten presses, but if it's behind the front line the ball near CM presses.

You must log in or register to see images

Front two of the three screen the passing lane into Howson to stifle build-up. Options are sideways and Bola plays a ball to Giles. Amos (highlighted) is ready to press as the pass is the trigger.

You must log in or register to see images

Giles tries to receive with an open body position but the pressure from Amos forces him backwards. Willock pushes m2m on Bola and Chair tucks inside to press Howson’s movement m2m.

Continued....

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/58324/what-have-we-learned-so-far-–-analysis

I read this and realised how much I just don't know! My lay understanding from what I've seen so far is that Beale is setting the team up well. We'd be at least 4 points better off with a striker that can put the ball in the net and we can't magic that from thin air. We need to give Beale much longer before judging but no major gripes for me so far tactically.

 

[sb_73]

I read this and realised how much I just don't know! My lay understanding from what I've seen so far is that Beale is setting the team up well. We'd be at least 4 points better off with a striker that can put the ball in the net and we can't magic that from thin air. We need to give Beale much longer before judging but no major gripes for me so far tactically.

Or perhaps people are just bullshitting themselves into jobs….

….I detest Neil Warnock as a person, but he has won multiple promotions out of this league and I bet none of them were based on this insane over complication of one of the most simple team games in the world.

and ‘the early signs are promising’? Really? I’m delighted we appointed someone like Beale and really hope that it works, much better than one of the old mob, but so far the signs are that his ideas haven’t bedded in with the players he has available, surely? Otherwise we’d have more points, but also more positive feelings about the style of the team.

The UEFA technical report on the tactics used in European competitions last season might be interesting if you like this kind of thing.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...8f3-1000--five-at-the-back-and-the-front-too/

Lots of formations and little videos to illustrate stuff. Most of the ‘big’ teams - Citeh, Bayern, Liverpool - played a really high defensive line and manic full press. Their managers, especially Pep and Klopp, are renowned for their tactical impact on the game overall. Ancelotti, whose Real Madrid won the Champions League with a geriatric midfield incapable of doing the full press stuff, isn’t lauded as an ‘innovator’. He is, I think, the most successful manager currently working, a serial winner in different leagues with different clubs, but doesn’t have the same reputation as those who have won less. The ultimate pragmatist. His comment on Liverpool - we knew exactly how they were going to play. We just needed to work out how to beat them.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Or perhaps people are just bullshitting themselves into jobs….

….I detest Neil Warnock as a person, but he has won multiple promotions out of this league and I bet none of them were based on this insane over complication of one of the most simple team games in the world.

and ‘the early signs are promising’? Really? I’m delighted we appointed someone like Beale and really hope that it works, much better than one of the old mob, but so far the signs are that his ideas haven’t bedded in with the players he has available, surely? Otherwise we’d have more points, but also more positive feelings about the style of the team.

The UEFA technical report on the tactics used in European competitions last season might be interesting if you like this kind of thing.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...8f3-1000--five-at-the-back-and-the-front-too/

Lots of formations and little videos to illustrate stuff. Most of the ‘big’ teams - Citeh, Bayern, Liverpool - played a really high defensive line and manic full press. Their managers, especially Pep and Klopp, are renowned for their tactical impact on the game overall. Ancelotti, whose Real Madrid won the Champions League with a geriatric midfield incapable of doing the full press stuff. He is also, I think, the most successful manager currently working, a serial winner in different leagues with different clubs, doesn’t have the same reputation. The ultimate pragmatist. His comment on Liverpool - we knew exactly how they were going to play. We just needed to work out how to beat them.

I will throw no stones about people bullshitting themselves into jobs

 

[bobmid]

Or perhaps people are just bullshitting themselves into jobs….

….I detest Neil Warnock as a person, but he has won multiple promotions out of this league and I bet none of them were based on this insane over complication of one of the most simple team games in the world.

and ‘the early signs are promising’? Really? I’m delighted we appointed someone like Beale and really hope that it works, much better than one of the old mob, but so far the signs are that his ideas haven’t bedded in with the players he has available, surely? Otherwise we’d have more points, but also more positive feelings about the style of the team.

The UEFA technical report on the tactics used in European competitions last season might be interesting if you like this kind of thing.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...8f3-1000--five-at-the-back-and-the-front-too/

Lots of formations and little videos to illustrate stuff. Most of the ‘big’ teams - Citeh, Bayern, Liverpool - played a really high defensive line and manic full press. Their managers, especially Pep and Klopp, are renowned for their tactical impact on the game overall. Ancelotti, whose Real Madrid won the Champions League with a geriatric midfield incapable of doing the full press stuff. He is also, I think, the most successful manager currently working, a serial winner in different leagues with different clubs, doesn’t have the same reputation. The ultimate pragmatist. His comment on Liverpool - we knew exactly how they were going to play. We just needed to work out how to beat them.

Excellent post mate.
The analysis of the tactics Beale is attempting is quite ridiculous really. Too much instruction into scenarios that you never know may happen. It's nothing short of people guess work really. If they have the ball there, then we do this or we do that?!?! For one its impossible to predict and secondly it takes knowing exactly what each individual opposition player is going to do, when and where.
The snap shots above give 2 examples. I bet there are 10 times that amount where it didn't happen. It certainly didn't happen at Sunderland that's for sure.

 

[bobmid]

Also the statement about 'unique use of two number 10's'. Erm......we saw Warbuton use that for a fair bit of last season. Every tactic/formation has its pros and cons. That article says how we press to make the opposition play out wide yet we don't have any bloody wide players ourselves. I'm a firm believer that the formation is only as good as the players that play in it. The better standard of players will win a match 8 times out of 10. Work rate, fitness and desire might snatch you the 2 out of 10.

 

[bobmid]

I'm yet to see anything new from us this season, that's not to say it won't happen. It's early days for Beale and he deserves time to make his stamp on our team. Remember where we were last season at this point. I have little to no expectations this season or for the foreseeable future, that's not down to Beale or the players but more down to the ever increasing gulf between the clubs that can spend more and pay higher wages.