Out means an opinion has been expressed. Doesn't mean anything else at the moment. Don't kid yourself. The economic outlook is still bleak. All those experts you 'ignored'? All looking long term. And all looking at the Euro now being worth more than the pound. And no change to immigration (which I thought was going to be so much better).
Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Sadly, most of the public are that stupid.
That wasn't stated on the ballot paper, though, was it? I thought it was about sovereignty, or EU bureaucracy, or our 'destiny', or just kicking the establishment. The fact is, people voted Leave for many different reasons - there are some that thought it would mean 'getting rid of the Muslims'.
Control of borders is a key aspect of sovereignty. If you listen to the Remainers like Mandelson and Will Straw, they know they lost the referendum on immigration numbers and control. Sure, there were other reasons, but this was by far the biggest factor.
I believe Theresa May realises that curbing free movement of labour from the EU is mandatory and non-negotiable. Her premiership won't last long if she doesn't - and most of her enemies would be inside her own party.
All the signs are that we won't invoke article 50 until late next year, after the German and French elections (I have no idea why we care about the French, but clearly we want Merkel to stay on in Germany, though what difference we make is beyond me. I suppose it buys us time to get the bureaucracy in place and for two of the three stooges to demonstrate their incompetence allowing them to be sacked). By the time we actually leave there will have been over 3 years of unfettered EU migration since the referendum. I suspect May is a bigger remainer than I thought, or it may be that she is simply paralysed, a rabbit in the headlights. 'Do nothing' seems to be the mantra of this government.
It's hard to criticise May's government for doing nothing, given it came in around the time Parliament went into recess and everyone went on vacation...
I think May will deliver. She said she will, and her reputation depends on it. You're right, she is watching the German and French elections. If there's change, as seems likely, it will be a move to the right in both countries and the new leaders will be more eurosceptic and perhaps open to a less punitive approach in the negotiations with the British.
If it takes until 2019 or 2020, so be it, so long as they get it right.
What if the new governments in Germany and France take a more punitive line? Given that what they say, the rest of the EU will likely fall in line with, would you still back an exit that costs us far more in trade and immigration concessions than you hope for?
There are no signs whatsoever that these countries, with or without a change of leadership, will take a more punitive line. Quite the reverse, they are keen to keep trade with us as uncomplicated as possible.
I back Brexit unconditionally because I believe that Britain is better trading with the world in its own right and making its own laws. It's a long term strategy, not dependent on whether our house prices or share investments go up or down in the next 6 months etc.
The EU does a few things well, and one of them is compromise. I'd put money on it that something will be bashed out over the next 2-3 years that suits all parties.
Your comment re Ms May is on the money. I don't see it as being a problem for her, though. I think she can see how a UK that is out of the EU gives her more scope for some of the things she'd like to change without external influences getting in the way, and right what she may have seen as some wrongs along the way.
Owen Smith is just being smart with his call to "ask the question" a second time. If 48% of the country wanted to stay, many of whom were Conservative voters, then perhaps some Labour Party members just about to vote for a leader might envision how a General Election with that as the main differentiator could attract more votes and possibly even win - and vote for Smith. They're wrong and it won't, but that just helps Smith to get some extra votes for the Labour leadership ballot. He'll never have to prove it, because Ms May won't call an election until 2020 and the current Parliament will invoke Article 50 at some point.
Guess what? The referendum was NOT an opinion former. It was a vote to LEAVE. If you do not like the way it went................tough! We all had our chance to voice our thoughts when we went to the polls.
The point being, we have already voted DEMOCRATICALLY to leave. Where is your argument to support a re-vote?
Only if you are scared of the outcome. Democracy = you can never change your mind. Really?
The Referendum was an opinion former, it is in no way legally binding. If you choose to want it otherwise, then fine. Doesn't change the facts about what a referendum actually is, however...
Wanting to leave the EU whatever the circumstances of the future state is incredibly naive. I'm glad that the politicians are taking their time, because is this is going to happen, they need to get it right.
Quite right, a referendum is a chance for the democracy to vote for change - we did vote and the vote was to leave the EU. Thanks for confirming.
Democracy = the right of the voters to vote for what THEY want. We did vote for what we wanted. END OF!
If there is anyone out there who can convince me why we need to have a referendum on a democratically conducted vote to leave the EU, I am all ears. I may even change my mind! Before you try though, please don't be foolish enough to say the the Brexiteers lied - both sides did, it's politics. Nor should you say that the vote was too close, a win is a win whatever the vote, game etc. You must also remember that we live in a democracy, so should your argument contradict that, you would be undermining the whole democratic process and possibly rendering your own points invalid.
Stop twisting stuff. The referendum is NOT legally binding. It's very different from an election. As you well know.
Why do all Leave supporters keep shouting "END OF" as if that proves their point, or as if it will stop those of us who voted Remain to simply shrug our shoulders and give up?