Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

I see Hammond and Fallon are now emerging with Theresa May as determined Brexiteers, despite fighting with Cameron to remain.

Hammond already putting up the white flag.
I said the other day watch Andrea Leadsom. She is the one a lot of Tory members want. Her speech today was the best of all the leader challenges.

I am no Farage fan but i am not so deluded to recognise things happening around me.
So mock Farage but remember he was the instigator of all this. Just heard on SkyNews that in 2012 he did a speech saying that the North (labour heartlands) was an area of discontent and that was an area they would focus on. This was dismissed by both Tory and Labour. He was right and those were the areas that won it for the Brexit vote. Not that stupid is he? He will be back in Europe soon or maybe part of the negotiations.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Hammond already putting up the white flag.
I said the other day watch Andrea Leadsom. She is the one a lot of Tory members want. Her speech today was the best of all the leader challenges.

I am no Farage fan but i am not so deluded to recognise things happening around me.
So mock Farage but remember he was the instigator of all this. Just heard on SkyNews that in 2012 he did a speech saying that the North (labour heartlands) was an area of discontent and that was an area they would focus on. This was dismissed by both Tory and Labour. He was right and those were the areas that won it for the Brexit vote. Not that stupid is he. He will be back in Europe soon or maybe part of the negotiations.

You're right, Ellers. Farage is not stupid. He's extreme at times, and rude to the Europeans, which is poor form, and hasn't done him any favours. But he's had the foresight to see what has been happening, unlike the chattering classes in London.

I see what is occurring as quite ominous for Labour. The Tories seem to be uniting under the Brexit banner. There are a few recalcitrants like Ken Clarke and that old goat Heseltine, but otherwise, there seems to be a common purpose. Would that continue under a May premiership, with Chris Grayling or another Brexiteer in charge of negotiations under the EU...? It might...

 

[Staines R's]

Looking forward to tonight's 'Blair Rich Project'. Channel 5, 8pm but will have to wait a few days as working to watch.
Bit worried about how serious a Channel 5 'expose' will be, but hope it goes some way to discovering the truth behind some of 'Honest Tony's' claims

 

[ELLERS]

You're right, Ellers. Farage is not stupid. He's extreme at times, and rude to the Europeans, which is poor form, and hasn't done him any favours. But he's had the foresight to see what has been happening, unlike the chattering classes in London.

I see what is occurring as quite ominous for Labour. The Tories seem to be uniting under the Brexit banner. There are a few recalcitrants like Ken Clarke and that old goat Heseltine, but otherwise, there seems to be a common purpose. Would that continue under a May premiership, with Chris Grayling or another Brexiteer in charge of negotiations under the EU...? It might...

As i said i am no Farage fan but i am not stupid enough to just dismiss him as a muppet. He got 4m votes in last election remember and was the main reason many people voted UKIP.

Labour is well and truly f22ked and if there was an election now they would get hammered. TBH i find a lot of their policies outdated. Comrade Corbyn comes across as an honest nice guy but who would vote for him? The Tories want him as leader as they know they would win an election. I can't see a labour government for years.

I think May would be a disaster as MP.

 

[ELLERS]

Looking forward to tonight's 'Blair Rich Project'. Channel 5, 8pm but will have to wait a few days as working to watch.
Bit worried about how serious a Channel 5 'expose' will be, but hope it goes some way to discovering the truth behind some of 'Honest Tony's' claims

I think we will find out a lot about Blair in the coming weeks. He has much to answer for but will probably slime his way out of it.
I wonder where all the Blair fans are now? Remember "things can only get better".

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

As i said i am no Farage fan but i am not stupid enough to just dismiss him as a muppet. He got 4m votes in last election remember and was the main reason many people voted UKIP.

Labour is well and truly f22ked and if there was an election now they would get hammered. TBH i find a lot of their policies outdated. Comrade Corbyn comes across as an honest nice guy but who would vote for him? The Tories want him as leader as they know they would win an election. I can't see a labour government for years.

I think May would be a disaster as MP.

Undecided about May. Most credit her with being an effective Home Secretary, and that role has been the graveyard for a number of politicians over the years.

If she's fully committed to Brexit, and not a diluted version which leaves us in the EU in all but name, then I can live with her.

 

[ELLERS]

Undecided about May. Most credit her with being an effective Home Secretary, and that role has been the graveyard for a number of politicians over the years.

If she's fully committed to Brexit, and not a diluted version which leaves us in the EU in all but name, then I can live with her.

I don't trust her TBH. However like you if it's her, it's her.

 

[TootingExcess]

I don't trust her TBH. However like you if it's her, it's her.

I see she hasn't guaranteed EU nationals residency rights, which even Gisela Stuart has criticised. My missus is going garrity, but I'm presuming Irish citizens wont be affected as it would mean kicking out Northern Irish citizens with only Irish passports.

 

[sb_73]

I see she hasn't guaranteed EU nationals residency rights, which even Gisela Stuart has criticised. My missus is going garrity, but I'm presuming Irish citizens wont be affected as it would mean kicking out Northern Irish citizens with only Irish passports.

I think we've had a long standing agreement with Ireland which pre dates even the EU Toots.

Just looked it up...oh my a whole new can of worms explodes in our faces. The common travel area between Ireland and the U.K. was established when the Free State was set up in 1923. No land border was enforced, travel between the countries could be with minimal ID, and......the Irish agreed to accept UK immigration rules - visa requirements from various countries etc. Indeed a couple of years ago Irish issued visas for Indian and Chinese travellers were recognised as accepted in the UK too, and vice versa. I suppose there must have been some exceptions during the Troubles, but largely interests haven't clashed. Until now. If we follow through with Brexit, and impose restrictions on future EU migration, Ireland (even if we make an exception for Irish citizens, which I would expect we will) as a member of the EU, could not adopt our policy, so the Common Travel Area must come to an end, because we can't have 'illegal' EU migration to the UK via Ireland, can we?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I see she hasn't guaranteed EU nationals residency rights, which even Gisela Stuart has criticised. My missus is going garrity, but I'm presuming Irish citizens wont be affected as it would mean kicking out Northern Irish citizens with only Irish passports.

The political reality is that no one that was here pre-referendum will be asked to leave. It just won't happen. Theresa May is being non-committal because she sees it as something to offer in forthcoming negotiations but the EU have only to call her bluff and she'll collapse on this one like a house of cards.

All the other Tory candidates have confirmed no one that's not swinging the lead will be sent home ...

 

[sb_73]

The political reality is that no one that was here pre-referendum will be asked to leave. It just won't happen. Theresa May is being non-committal because she sees it as something to offer in forthcoming negotiations but the EU have only to call her bluff and she'll collapse on this one like a house of cards.

All the other Tory candidates have confirmed no one that's not swinging the lead will be sent home ...

So the ones swinging the lead will be sent home? It's all as clear as mud to me.

 

[durbar2003]

Standard Life Investments suspended trading in its 2.9 billion-pound ($3.9 billion) U.K. Real Estate fund on Monday after Britain’s vote to leave the European Union triggered a surge in redemptions.

The fund, which invests in a mix of prime commercial real estate assets, was halted at midday and the decision will be reviewed every 28 days, the Edinburgh, Scotland-based fund manager said in a statement. Standard Life adjusted the value of the underlying assets by 5 percent last week.

“The risk is that it’s the thin end of the wedge and we have more property funds doing this sort of thing in the weeks and months to come,” said Laith Khalaf, a senior analyst at investment firm Hargreaves Lansdown. “If Standard Life is experiencing outflows, other managers will be suffering the similar fate and may have to take similar action.”

Investors are pulling money as industry commentators warn that London office values could fall by as much as 20 percent within three years of the country leaving the European Union. Khalaf estimated that about 25 billion pounds is invested in property sector funds by U.K. investors, including those that invest in stocks.

Redemption Requests
“The decision was taken following an increase in redemption requests as a result of uncertainty for the U.K. commercial real estate market,” Standard Life said in a statement Monday. “The suspension was requested to protect the interests of all investors in the fund and to avoid compromising investment returns.”

The company said the property fund still offered a stable and secure income return with a distribution yield of about 3.86 percent and that the selling process had to be controlled to protect investors. The fund held a cash position of more than 13 percent as of May 31.

Standard Life was among a number of asset managers, including Aberdeen Asset Management Plc and M&G Investments, that last week adjusted the vale of the underlying property assets in some of their funds in the wake of Brexit.

A spokesman for Aberdeen said the company had no plans to suspend trading in
its funds, saying that redemptions had started to slow and its U.K. property
fund held about 20 percent in cash.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

So the ones swinging the lead will be sent home? It's all as clear as mud to me.

Agree it's not clear. Perhaps it will depend on how long they've been here. All to be decided

 

[sb_73]

Really interesting short Panorama on Leave voters just been on, only slightly marred by being presented by Adrian Chiles. Not sure if it was shown nationwide, as all the people interviewed were from Tipton, might just have been a West Midlands thing.

No one interviewed was by any stretch of the imagination well off, but most had clear views and expressed them very strongly. One, a youngish pub landlord, put his view very clearly and well - if you are well off, got a nice house, a good job, live in a nice place why would you risk change? For every one else they want these things and the vote was a way to express their anger. Everyone said that immigration (numbers of people, not where they are from) was the key issue for them. But what they talked about was closed shops and lost industries. Some talked about pressure on services, but there was a palpable longing for the welfare state and solid working class communities of the past from everyone over about 45.

Not saying these were representative leave voters, but I would be surprised if there weren't several millions very similar. They will be very angry if they don't see some positive change in their own circumstances pretty soon, especially if there is slow or no movement on actually leaving the EU. I hope a few politicians, especially those who will form the new government, go and listen to people like this. Have to say I think the BBC has represented ordinary Leave voters very poorly until this. All of the vox pops on the news have shown people in a very poor light (from my perspective), going on about being ruled by Germans etc. This was much more like it. Sadly I don't think Brexit will help them much. I don't think the EU is the problem.

 

[colognehornet]

The political reality is that no one that was here pre-referendum will be asked to leave. It just won't happen. Theresa May is being non-committal because she sees it as something to offer in forthcoming negotiations but the EU have only to call her bluff and she'll collapse on this one like a house of cards.

All the other Tory candidates have confirmed no one that's not swinging the lead will be sent home ...

I would agree with that Goldie. No one will be punished restrospectively - this may be done on a tit for tat basis but in the end no government is going to make a decision which harms their nationals overseas. I mean does the government really want around 2 million disgruntled returning Britons all with voting rights ? I know it will not affect my life here, although some others are a little nervous about it.

My main reason for being sad about the result is that Britain really has something to offer the EU. and Europe will be a poorer place without them. When you have lived abroad for a long time you can get very critical of your homeland - because you want to be proud of it (particularly here). But you also get to appreciate things as well. Britain is miles ahead in terms of things like multi culturalism and tolerance - it is the only country in Europe where you could see a policewoman wearing a headscarf as part of her uniform - the only one where its capital city could elect an Islamic lord mayor. Look for people of immigrant origins in the civil service in Germany and you will be looking for a long time. The only country where normal policeman do not carry guns and lastly, the only country where people thank bus drivers when getting off the bus (at least in rural areas) - the grumpy Germans could never understand this one. This is why many people are surprised that so many voted in the UK. on the basis of immigration - but this is seen from outside. Most Germans are sad about what is happening in Britain ( and this is not for economic reasons) because Europe needs Britain as much as the other way around.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Really interesting short Panorama on Leave voters just been on, only slightly marred by being presented by Adrian Chiles. Not sure if it was shown nationwide, as all the people interviewed were from Tipton, might just have been a West Midlands thing.

No one interviewed was by any stretch of the imagination well off, but most had clear views and expressed them very strongly. One, a youngish pub landlord, put his view very clearly and well - if you are well off, got a nice house, a good job, live in a nice place why would you risk change? For every one else they want these things and the vote was a way to express their anger. Everyone said that immigration (numbers of people, not where they are from) was the key issue for them. But what they talked about was closed shops and lost industries. Some talked about pressure on services, but there was a palpable longing for the welfare state and solid working class communities of the past from everyone over about 45.

Not saying these were representative leave voters, but I would be surprised if there weren't several millions very similar. They will be very angry if they don't see some positive change in their own circumstances pretty soon, especially if there is slow or no movement on actually leaving the EU. I hope a few politicians, especially those who will form the new government, go a listen to people like this. Have to say I think the BBC has represented ordinary Leave voters very poorly until this. All of the vox pops on the news have shown people in a very poor light (from my perspective), going on about being ruled by Germans etc. This was much more like it. Sadly I don't think Brexit will help them much.

Not sure if this link will work but my brother found this very interesting (and relevant to your post) article from the Guardian.
http://gu.com/p/4n5d5/sbl

 

[ELLERS]

Not sure if this link will work but my brother found this very interesting (and relevant to your post) article from the Guardian.
http://gu.com/p/4n5d5/sbl

The Guardian supported the 'Remain' side so i would take that with a large pinch. Although they do have a good arts section.

 

[KooPeeArr]

The Guardian supported the 'Remain' side so i would take that with a large pinch. Although they do have a good arts section.

It's not contesting the result rather than discussing the people that aren't usually engaged in politics that have been largely neglected by all political parties.

 

[ELLERS]

It's not contesting the result rather than discussing the people that aren't usually engaged in politics that have been largely neglected by all political parties.

I guess that is a good thing. i am actually surprised about the amount of people who know very little about politics.

 

[KooPeeArr]

I guess that is a good thing. i am actually surprised about the amount of people who know very little about politics.

The article is a good thing or people becoming isolated from politics?