Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Wife and daughter just returned from a day at the shops, carrying a load of Converse plimsolls bought in a shop called USC (me neither). Apparently they were going cheap because yesterday Mike Ashley (yes him) fresh from his bewildering performance at the House of Commons, announced yesterday that the chain (yes he owns it) is being closed down, a month til the doors shut.

As they were checking out they chatted to the bloke left in charge, a 35 year old on a zero hours contract earning £7.30 an hour, so he works as much as he can, 40 hours when he can. As they were talking another shop assistant literally walked out, saying he'd had enough.

Zero hours workers do not qualify for redundancy pay, usually. Because they are 'casual workers', not 'employees'.

 

[vblockiain]

Just to be clear, I am not accusing anybody of racism or even of disliking foreigners. I do doubt that some have Europe's interests at heart to the same degree as they do Britain's. Which is fair enough, and nothing to be ashamed about. I was rather surprised by the tone of Iain's response to my barbed but lighthearted comment, especially given his (cynical, even by my standards) approach to this - emotion is all, facts are meaningless, say anything to get your own way. Seems I misjudged him. I should have remembered that I wasn't baiting you or Goldie.

i have had enough of the pontification of a tit who sees it as his role in life to lead the mediocre on a confused & futile path towards a direction you believe to be correct while many of them only gain confusion & frustration. You are not worthy of my energy & i certainly won't waste any more here

 

[rangercol]

i have had enough of the pontification of a tit who sees it as his role in life to lead the mediocre on a confused & futile path towards a direction you believe to be correct while many of them only gain confusion & frustration. You are not worthy of my energy & i certainly won't waste any more here

 

[colognehornet]

Just to be clear, I am not accusing anybody of racism or even of disliking foreigners. I do doubt that some have Europe's interests at heart to the same degree as they do Britain's. Which is fair enough, and nothing to be ashamed about. I was rather surprised by the tone of Iain's response to my barbed but lighthearted comment, especially given his (cynical, even by my standards) approach to this - emotion is all, facts are meaningless, say anything to get your own way. Seems I misjudged him. I should have remembered that I wasn't baiting you or Goldie.

There are however a great many English people who have an instinctive dislike of anyone south of Calais, and who really need no reason to show their darker side. The idea is being given out that Britain is teeming with Europeans who cut our wages, steal our jobs, place undue strains on public services and are even a threat to our women ! The reality is anything but that. Just taking Rumanians as an example - there are 144,000 of them in the UK. But.....wait for it....200,000 in France, 576,000 in Germany, 705,333 in Spain and 1,131,839 in Italy - are those countries reacting in the same way to this phenomenon, no. Are any of those countries throwing their toys out of the pram and saying 'we don't want to play any more ? Again the answer is no. Altogether the percentage of citizens from other EU. countries living in the UK. is 3.97% of the UK. population as a whole - a figure which is fairly normal for a west European industrial nation (others are higher). There is simply no question of taking such a radical step as alienating ourselves from our best partners on the basis of immigration. If some public services are becoming stretched in some parts of the country then we should be questioning the effectiveness of those public services not freedom of movement as a whole.

 

[sb_73]

i have had enough of the pontification of a tit who sees it as his role in life to lead the mediocre on a confused & futile path towards a direction you believe to be correct while many of them only gain confusion & frustration. You are not worthy of my energy & i certainly won't waste any more here

Oh dear, when a few pages ago you were 'liking my style' which hasn't changed to the best of my knowledge. If you don't like hearing views which don't coincide with your own, don't come to play on an Internet message board. I will continue to pontificate, patronise and generally make an irritating fool of myself, just like the liberal elitist I am.

For what it's worth I expect Brexit to win this referendum. Enjoy your moment of triumph, then come back and start blaming me and all your other 'enemies within' for the fact that none of your problems have gone away.

 

[sb_73]

I believe we may have a ringer on the board....

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Sooperhoop]

Cameron so desperate he's now warning pensioners will suffer if we leave. I've yet to hear a single positive reason he's given to justify staying in and he wonders why the polls are nosediving for the 'Remain' campaign. Targeting the one group unlikely to vote his way seems to smack of really scraping the barrel...

 

[kiwiqpr]

There are however a great many English people who have an instinctive dislike of anyone south of Calais, and who really need no reason to show their darker side. The idea is being given out that Britain is teeming with Europeans who cut our wages, steal our jobs, place undue strains on public services and are even a threat to our women ! The reality is anything but that. Just taking Rumanians as an example - there are 144,000 of them in the UK. But.....wait for it....200,000 in France, 576,000 in Germany, 705,333 in Spain and 1,131,839 in Italy - are those countries reacting in the same way to this phenomenon, no. Are any of those countries throwing their toys out of the pram and saying 'we don't want to play any more ? Again the answer is no. Altogether the percentage of citizens from other EU. countries living in the UK. is 3.97% of the UK. population as a whole - a figure which is fairly normal for a west European industrial nation (others are higher). There is simply no question of taking such a radical step as alienating ourselves from our best partners on the basis of immigration. If some public services are becoming stretched in some parts of the country then we should be questioning the effectiveness of those public services not freedom of movement as a whole.

Why you picking on English people
Are they the only ones allowed to vote
Are. There any Romanians still living in rumania

 

[ELLERS]

Years ago i actually believed in the crap Cameron said. He said he would be tough on crime. I even remember the quote of "'commit the crime, do the time". What a load of tosh! He said he would sort the NHS and hasn't and only letting in 10's of thousands. It looked like a new dawn after a tired useless labour government but after this in/out thing of scaring even the pensioners is a new low. Whatever the result Cameron will be gone soon.

 

[cor blymie]

very interesting to see when some of us were urging the boys on, who was on here

 

[sb_73]

very interesting to see when some of us were urging the boys on, who was on here

Man can do two things at once shock Jezza.

 

[QPR999]

Cameron so desperate he's now warning pensioners will suffer if we leave. I've yet to hear a single positive reason he's given to justify staying in and he wonders why the polls are nosediving for the 'Remain' campaign. Targeting the one group unlikely to vote his way seems to smack of really scraping the barrel...

It's come to the point where I wished he was campaigning for brexit.

 

[colognehornet]

It's come to the point where I wished he was campaigning for brexit.

The Brexit case is easier to argue Nines. The case for Remain is based on logical reasoning, but has little emotion behind it, whereas the Brexiters are able to give out catchy phrases to the public. Both Cameron and Corbyn are giving out the impression that 'on balance' they are for Europe - Corbyn gives out the impression that he sees the EU. as a usefull block against Tory excesses, and nothing more, he even goes on to say that he is 70% for Europe - well, if I am only 70% committed and my opponent 100% then there can only be one result. From the 'more passionate' pro Europeans, the Greens do not have the weight, Sturgeon is in the wrong party (from English eyes) and Blair and Major are both seen as poisoned brands by their own parties. Cameron is doing what he has always done - waffling. The case for remain is reasoned, cold, based on economic analysis, and needs many pages of A4 paper to explain, whereas the argument for Brexit is emotional and reduces itself to short catchy phrases (the fact that they are mostly based on inaccuracies is not important) which can be talked about later in the pub, or which can be taken up easily by papers like the Sun.

 

[danishqp]

Finglas - I know you're enjoying the Euros (and good luck) but you're not correct in UK residents rushinghome to Blighty to undergo treatment - on the contrary the service they are getting - and regretabbly have seen it first hand in the very poorest part of Spain can only be described as World Class.
Rajoy is a dead man that's been walking for years and is completely subservient to Merkel, so will say whatever. The Spanish wouldn't dream of kicking out the British pensioners who on the whole bring continued revenue on a plus scale in the total cost of ownersship.
Stan - You're asking for what pro-european means - well to me at least it is this -
We have some distinct commanalities - some more so than others
France - neighbours and a very long history
Germans -grudging respect and we like to think the war periods between us are over
Scandys - Much the same overall values and their clean
Southern Euro - The Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and Greeks are great places to visit and the people generally peaceful and hard working.

The others are new relations to which the jury is out.

You keep on stating that being a part of EU does not affect us in as far as taking in people from outside EU - Poppycock and you know it - Stuck in Frankfurt right now and this is not Germany anymore. I consider myself reasonably travelled, was one of the guinea pigs for EEC Law at Southampton Uni - Didn't finish as you know. Most decent people are yearning for days gone by -

A World where we didn't have everything force fed on us 24/7
A World where people read and can actually talk to each other.
A World where people locally can make a difference

I say go for it - the UK has so often been the leaders - the unelected totalitarians are quaking as they know what this will mean -
Go on the UK -

Show Europe that we can be competitive again
Show Europe how to to converse over a dinner table
Show Europe how to once again, educate OUR children for free, not to the highest bidder (Chinese/Indian etc.) - I can't b's get this rightelieve that the UNI experience in UK is now so damn boring and kids getting deprresed goes they get a Desmond!!!
Show Eurpoe that we can again be the Leaders, not the laughing stock.

What have you got to lose - a few sheckels? This could be the future of our children's children, we have been the crapppiest generation, probably since time, let 's get this right - let's get this right for the whole of our friends in Eurpoe - this is not a Brexit - this is a fight for Europe.

Vote Leave the EU.

And if Europe loses, (Remain wins) the fight for Europe is still on,

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The Brexit case is easier to argue Nines. The case for Remain is based on logical reasoning, but has little emotion behind it, whereas the Brexiters are able to give out catchy phrases to the public. Both Cameron and Corbyn are giving out the impression that 'on balance' they are for Europe - Corbyn gives out the impression that he sees the EU. as a usefull block against Tory excesses, and nothing more, he even goes on to say that he is 70% for Europe - well, if I am only 70% committed and my opponent 100% then there can only be one result. From the 'more passionate' pro Europeans, the Greens do not have the weight, Sturgeon is in the wrong party (from English eyes) and Blair and Major are both seen as poisoned brands by their own parties. Cameron is doing what he has always done - waffling. The case for remain is reasoned, cold, based on economic analysis, and needs many pages of A4 paper to explain, whereas the argument for Brexit is emotional and reduces itself to short catchy phrases (the fact that they are mostly based on inaccuracies is not important) which can be talked about later in the pub, or which can be taken up easily by papers like the Sun.

That's not a bad analysis, Cologne except for the following:

1. Many of the economists providing the "cold, economic analysis" also supported going into the ERM and the Euro. Some of them are funded by the British Government and some by the EU, so true independence has to be questioned.

2. It's not just the Sun, but the bulk of the British national press that supports Brexit.

 

[sb_73]

If anyone on here is on a statin and listened to the discussion between doctors on whether cholesterol really is bad for you on the radio this morning, or has read about it in the press, I'd consult your doctor before deciding you don't need to take them anymore. It may be that you don't, but the evidence looks very inconclusive to me. It's a shame, because we like certainty from science, even though that is not science's job. It may be some time before a consensus is achieved on this one.

 

[Stroller]

You must log in or register to see images

 

[sb_73]

You must log in or register to see images

I hit 3.5 of the remain criteria and 2 of the leave ones.

 

[Stroller]

I hit 3.5 of the remain criteria and 2 of the leave ones.

I hit 4 remain and 1 leave.

What's puzzling is that there are apparently some UKIP supporters intending to vote Remain. Maybe they didn't understand the question.

 

[Chaz]

Just for info - two Remain and FIVE Leave for me. But I'd never vote Leave, having done basic research into the issues.

Off again now...