Bookies aren't having it, Col.....
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
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Bookies aren't having it, Col.....
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
The population as a whole may not have been dropping Goldie. But around the 80's people were starting to become more mobile in the UK. Back around the 50s most English towns were homogeneous working class towns, with many people being born, living and dying in the same place. Most English people now have the dream of home ownership - often moving 3 or 4 times until arriving in the place they want (somewhere nice in the countryside or suburbs) - how many of us on these boards actually live in the place where they were born ? But what does this increased mobility leave behind ? In the 80s due to the ravages of Thatcherism many towns of the north were becoming depopulated - Liverpool alone lost over 200,000 people over this period - where they went is irrelevant (abroad, the South?) immigration was seen by the Blair government as a way of rejuvinating Britain's inner cities and it was the only course to take at that time. By the way, from the net 333,000 people coming into Britain (as inflow) last year 83,000 were returning Britons.
I came on this board to see if there was any comment on Junior Hoillet leaving for Swansea, instead I found the most balanced and least emotional debate on the EU anywhere on the internet (and I've looked)
I have to agree withcolognehornet on this. I worked in the Black Country in the early 80s and the places like Brierly Hill became employment deserts overnight. Work in the UK was really hard to find and hundred of thousands left to work in Germany (TV programmes Boys from the Black Stuff & Auf Wiedersehen Pet summed things up pretty well). If the economy dips, as it almost certainly will, London will see job seeking hopefuls from all part of the UK looking for streets paved with gold. (It might mean bigger crowds for you though!)
Unfortunately many impoverished areas of the UK only survive with directed support for the EU. While money may be save if we leave I'm in not doubt that Tory Westminster would not be as generous to the West of England, North East, parts of West Midlands, much of Scotland, NI and Wales.
As it is the UK is just about hanging on to the economic coat tail of London because of EU grants.
Whichever you prefer I would urge everyone to vote but don't do what a neighbour of mine has done with his postal vote - he boasted he'd voted out and had left a very rude message on part of the return slip ... instant spoiled paper and it won't count.
ps Hoilett staying or leaving?
I have to agree withcolognehornet on this. I worked in the Black Country in the early 80s and the places like Brierly Hill became employment deserts overnight. Work in the UK was really hard to find and hundred of thousands left to work in Germany (TV programmes Boys from the Black Stuff & Auf Wiedersehen Pet summed things up pretty well). If the economy dips, as it almost certainly will, London will see job seeking hopefuls from all part of the UK looking for streets paved with gold. (It might mean bigger crowds for you though!)
Unfortunately many impoverished areas of the UK only survive with directed support for the EU. While money may be save if we leave I'm in not doubt that Tory Westminster would not be as generous to the West of England, North East, parts of West Midlands, much of Scotland, NI and Wales.
As it is the UK is just about hanging on to the economic coat tail of London because of EU grants.
Whichever you prefer I would urge everyone to vote but don't do what a neighbour of mine has done with his postal vote - he boasted he'd voted out and had left a very rude message on part of the return slip ... instant spoiled paper and it won't count.
ps Hoilett staying or leaving?
It's got a little feisty at times, but we are pretty good at understanding that, however ever deep the feelings and convictions, there are limits. Apart from me on Johnson.
Sadly our tiny stadium can only really seat midgets in comfort now, no space for any new arrivals.
Hoilett apparently has an offer from us to stay, but his contract is up, and we assume he won't be offered the stupid wages of old. So I would guess he'd jump at an offer from a Premiership team, it's entirely up to him. He hasn't delivered consistently for us, but our frustration has been (well mine anyway) that he clearly has all it takes to be a very good player indeed - except I suspect confidence. Right manager could work a miracle. I think we'd have Routledge back if you don't need him any more. That Montero looked great early on last season, did he keep it going?
Anyone watch Cameron v Farage? Me neither.
I have a vision of Cameron Backstage with his PR team pulling at his top hat & monocle generally trying to untoff him in time. While Nigel was choosing his favourite suit from a choice of 12 that all look identical. Rimmeresque the pair of them.
I think the audience had snipers trained on them if they got to feisty. I was tamer than a handbag Chihuahua.
I think the audience had snipers trained on them if they got to feisty. I was tamer than a handbag Chihuahua.
Oh dear, Labour accused of the same thing. Though we can assume that this was probably a genuine cock up rather than industrial scale cheating, because it's Labour.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...q?shareToken=50c53a1f3054ee3ab2fb0ebd3c13ad15
Arnold Rimmer, very droll.
U.K. banks and investment banks based in the UK have sold £59bn worth of sterling to buy other currencies over the last couple of months and reckon that the £ could fall to $1.20 and 1:1 with the € in the event of Brexit. Which would be good for the balance of trade because we couldn't afford to buy anything from abroad. This is different to an economists prediction, these banks could actually make it happen, and are stupid enough to do so. 'Market confidence', doncha just luv it? Although it would give us a nice little crisis to practise our hard won sovereignty on. Oh dear, we wouldn't be able to do anything except doubtless drain whatever reserves we have in a pointless attempt to prop the currency up, put interest rates up to ERM fiasco levels, sigh as inflation hits double figures, and be all sympathetic to those who lose their jobs because their companies which rely on imported materials are no longer viable. Government tax income drops like a stone, austerity redoubled, the defenceless and needy get more defenceless and needy.
Still, a fair trade for some notional concept of 'sovereignty', ****ing people's real lives up a bit. Face it, we are trapped, no matter how awful the EU is, the consequences of leaving it are beyond dire. But we all have to put up with things we don't like and are trapped in innumerable little ways - jobs, mortgages, debts, kids to pay for. It's just the same on a national scale, sit back and relax.
Hopefully I have exaggerated, but for the first time in this nightmare campaign I am genuinely worried, as we should all be. So don't be a twat, vote Remain. Don't let bankers profit from your pain. Remember this is an 'industry' which grew bloated for years from arcane derivatives based on mortgages sold to people who couldn't afford to pay them back and when just 8% of these mortgages were defaulted on we had years of global recession and are still living with 'austerity'. These ****ers have form.
Perhaps Cameron et al should start spelling it out in these terms.
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I didn't see it, but did Cameron adopt the dominant legs-unnaturally-wide-apart stance? Seems Lynton's told them all to do it.
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I guess this is why Labour have not been pressing the issue. They're going to have to re-run the whole election.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...on-is-spreading-across-the-eu-pew-study-finds
France's falling out of love with the EU is particularly noticeable - 38% down from 69% in 2004
France's falling out of love with the EU is particularly noticeable - 38% down from 69% in 2004
That should be their slogan.
Don't be a twat, vote Remain. Don't let bankers profit from your pain.
Many, many years ago, when I worked in the Hong Kong government, pre handover to China, the government attempted a feeble bit of democratisation, by opening up elections for district councils. It was meant to embed some democratic principles before the PRC took over.One of my mates was involved with the process, they had to come up with a slogan to get people out to vote. His suggestion was, surprisingly, rejected.
"Don't be a ****, vote"
Whatever they chose didn't work, the turnout was pathetic, a surprise to us liberals who thought democracy was the bees knees. We had forgotten that back then the average Hong Kong Resident was just happy to have a government which let them get on with making money and didn't torture them. Now that they are faced with an alternative style of government, the support for democracy has risen markedly.
Thanks for that Goldie, the video link admirably backs up my point in post [HASHTAG]#1557[/HASHTAG].
Investors will speculate - nothing new. They're like starlings on a tree, they all fly off in a flock at the hint of trouble and then fly back again. The same was said when the decision was taken not to join the euro.
The Pew report is interesting because it shows that the UK voters are not alone in their concern for the way the EU has been going. This gives me hope that, in the event of a Remain vote here, there will be pressure throughout Europe on the grey suits in Brussels and the Council of Ministers to start changing direction. If they don't, I have absolutely no doubt we will see a rise of the mad far right on the Continent. The arrest of that French anti-immigration extremist with a car load of Kalashnikovs and rocket propelled grenades to take to the European Championships was mind-boggling.
It's a good point to make Goldie, the rise of euroscepticism in mainland Europe, because it backs my view that a centralised EU superstate isn't going to happen. People don't want it - most are happy with the integration we have now and don't really want anything more. I'm talking other EU countries here rather than the UK.
There just doesn't seem to be any sign of compromise from European leadership, Tooting. Merkel, Hollande, Juncker, Tusk and others are on some crusade for a federal Europe, and it fans the fires of nationalist parties like UKIP, and has brought about the Brexit referendum. This kind of empire building over such a comparatively short time period is destined to create problems, as we have seen with Greece.
One thing we can be certain of in the UK - after the referendum, nothing's going to be the same. The status quo has gone. Leave, and we're in a new world, which will have short term challenges (although I would not rule out the EU trying to reach some sort of "associate member" fudge with us). Stay, and unless there's a huge majority for Remain (which looks unlikely), support for UKIP as the EU protest party looks likely to surge. Nigel Farage could be the big winner in all this.