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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Just watched a Brexit leave advertisement on BBC1. It was awful and sums up the crap campaign to date.

    So frustrating.
     
    #3561
  2. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I half saw that, embarrassingly poor. Voters have been treated like morons by both sides. I'm now more worried about the aftermath of the vote within the UK than its actual consequences.
     
    #3562
  3. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Brexit campaign finally rolls out something of substance with its points based immigration system. Applies to all migrants EXCEPT the Irish and EU Citizens already here, which means that the pressures currently being felt in some towns and cities will not go away. I hope voters understand this. Employers will apparently decide how many of which type of migrants we need.

    My guesses at the impact, which are not Remain vs Leave issues, no points scoring intended. Obviously we need a better immigration policy than the current one, especially one that can actually be implemented, and I don't have any better ideas.

    - aim is to encourage 'skilled' migration - especially the foreigners who prop up the NHS I suppose. For me this just begs the question - why the **** aren't we, with our huge student population, producing enough of our own skilled people? If we end up importing Indian software engineers when there are unemployed British ones, it's a fail.

    - the assumption is that current migrants in unskilled jobs work for less that unskilled Brits are prepared to get out of bed for. Cutting off the labour supply will drive up wages at the lower end (no bad thing), also force some businesses to close (if they can't pay their workers a decent wage, good, they are not a viable business. Hopefully there is enough business opportunity and entrepreneurs around to pick up the slack)

    - foreign investors and entrepreneurs are still to be encouraged. Let's make sure they pay their ****ing tax, OK? The Aussies have strict rules about the size of capital investments, and have placed restrictions on unoccupied properties etc (I think).

    - the policy will fail if it does not substantially reduce immigration. Immigrants are net contributors to the economy and the public purse - the tax take will fall (who knows how much, I don't trust any numbers now), the shortfall will either have to be made up through higher tax or service cuts. I think the Brexit dividend has been allocated, multiple times, elsewhere already. Let's just be honest about this, I think many will conclude its a price worth paying.

    Personally I think a points based system is as good as any other, though things are not all sweetness and light in Australia with immigrants, which is the stock example given. I would probably place the emphasis on employers. No immigration (except reuniting families and properly assessed asylum/refugees) unless the migrant has a job before entering the country, and the prospective employer has demonstrated to the Home Office that they have really tested the UK job market and have had zero suitable applicants, they will provide support for the migrant in finding somewhere to live and acclimatising, and above all that they will not pay an Indian software engineer less than they would pay a British one.

    I would also like us to cap the numbers of foreign students. I know they are a cash cow for the universities, but the drive for income generation is seriously skewing the nature of higher education. Nothing against the students themselves, but 33% of first degree students at University College London are 'international'. My daughter has UCL as a place she is interested in, but I'd rather pay (less) for her to study at a European university and get a genuine international experience.

    Of course, the only political party that has this policy as far as I know is UKIP.
     
    #3563
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  4. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #3564
  5. TootingExcess

    TootingExcess Well-Known Member

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    #3565
  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #3566

  7. vblockiain

    vblockiain Member

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    Six foot two ,eyes of blue, Brexiters are after you :)
     
    #3567
    KentGaz likes this.
  8. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you said you were a gangbang Tory.
     
    #3568
  9. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    In favour of Remain - voters tend to move towards the status quo the closer the date gets to the vote

    In favour of Brexit - Out voters as a class seem generally more determined to vote

    All to play for
     
    #3569
  10. TootingExcess

    TootingExcess Well-Known Member

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    I know by the time the next season kicks off we could have Premier Gove or Premier Corbyn too! What a time to be alive! :emoticon-0119-puke:
     
    #3570
    GoldhawkRoad likes this.
  11. vblockiain

    vblockiain Member

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    nothing like a good wicks
     
    #3571
  12. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    Despite Cameron's banal 'Project Fear' and the Remain campaign's pathetic performance events making the news are perhaps having a far bigger impact than our mealy-mouthed politicians best (or worst) efforts. If the 23rd June has the same weather we have had this week Cameron may well be toast...
     
    #3572
  13. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Can't say I'd fancy Premier Osborne much either, but perhaps I'm just biased against
     
    #3573
  14. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    #3574
  15. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    There are 29 marginal constituencies where Tory spending was questionable, many of which are currently being investigated by local police, and I think I'm right in saying they won all but two of these. It wouldn't take many of these results to be declared void for the Tories to potentially lose their majority. Which then calls into question their mandate for calling the EU referendum.<whistle>

    Michael White offers some pretty unconvincing reasons for the lack of coverage here.........

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/01/channel-4-leads-the-way-on-tory-election-claims
     
    #3575
  16. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting analysis this morning from a German businessman. He said that the Germans have traditionally liked playing the compromise maker in the EU, though they are more inclined to the UK position in most things. If the UK goes they will feel isolated and there will be serious questions about whether they would want to continue this role, and instead of compromise they might start to play to win.
     
    #3576
    Chaz likes this.
  17. TootingExcess

    TootingExcess Well-Known Member

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    Won't be Osborne next in the event of a remain Goldie - probably May is the only compromise candidate I can think of.
     
    #3577
  18. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    What about the PGA Golf tour in the States deliberately moving a tournament due to be held at a course owned by Trump in Florida as they say they can't attract enough sponsorship??? To add insult to injury, they are moving the tournament to MEXICO. Poor old Donald is not a happy bunny about it.
     
    #3578
    sb_73 likes this.
  19. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Interesting...the vote above is almost tied now at 49-48 in favour of Remain.
     
    #3579
    rangercol likes this.
  20. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    The poll has just switched to pro leave - and I think it is people changing their vote rather than new voters.
     
    #3580
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016

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