Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
There you go Fingy, we are second biggest export market for you blokes, you must send a lot of butter and Guinness to the USA.....

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That table only includes exports. I think if you include imports, the UK will be in first place ahead of the US. Contrary to popular belief, our main exports are not Guinness or Kerrygold (sorry Ciarrai) but pharmaceuticals and computer equipment.
 
That's just the top end of the market, the middle sector is so squeezed by many EU nationals that house prices for everyone are being forced up, London is becoming a place that only the wealthy can afford to buy in and everyone else is forced now to rent unless they move to the suburbs or beyond. Kensington, for example has a French National population that would make it one of France's larger cities.

Those at the bottom on housing benefits are shielded from this so there's a really strange mix. There's no point in moaning about it now, it's too far gone to rectify but London in another 20 years is going to be a place in which English will be a minority language...
Do the French and other EU nationals living in London not speak English? The free movement of people within the EU is a two way street. I would say UK nationals living in France, Spain, Ireland and Portugal are pretty substantial as well. Many of them sell their properties in London and other parts of your country and move to the Mediterranean countries to enjoy their retirement years in the sun.
 
Do the French and other EU nationals living in London not speak English? The free movement of people within the EU is a two way street. I would say UK nationals living in France, Spain, Ireland and Portugal are pretty substantial as well. Many of them sell their properties in London and other parts of your country and move to the Mediterranean countries to enjoy their retirement years in the sun.

So what happens to the Londoners who are forced out of the capital by super-inflated house prices? Those include key-workers who just cannot afford to stay in the place they have lived all their lives...
 
Bloody hell Matt, all 58 pages? Your commitment is laudable.

I think your interpretation of the arguments re trade are correct. I have no idea about sales tax. The 5th biggest economy stuff is irrelevant. 45% of our exports go to the EU. 16% of EU exports go to the UK. Not a single EU country has the UK as its top trading partner, and we are not even in the top 3 for Germany. A way will be found to trade if we leave, I have no doubt, but it won't necessarily be found quickly and easily.

Wiki has the UK as Germany's 3rd largest export market (after France and US) at 105bn dollars. That's why for me, the 16% means little. Who cares if we don't buy anything from Bulgaria. As the largest financial contributor, Germany makes the decisions in the EU, and they won't lose their third largest buyer.
 
So what happens to the Londoners who are forced out of the capital by super-inflated house prices? Those include key-workers who just cannot afford to stay in the place they have lived all their lives...
I don't know the answer Sooper. We all choose where we live. Affordability of housing is a part of our decision. Property in London was always expensive. When I lived there in the eighties, I remember paying something like 60% of my entire monthly salary on my first month's mortgage.
 
Wiki has the UK as Germany's 3rd largest export market (after France and US) at 105bn dollars. That's why for me, the 16% means little. Who cares if we don't buy anything from Bulgaria. As the largest financial contributor, Germany makes the decisions in the EU, and they won't lose their third largest buyer.
Wiki v National Institute of Economic & Social Research. It doesn't really matter Goldie, if economists can't even agree about historical statistics, why on earth would anyone believe their predictions about the future? As I said above, I am sure trade will continue under slightly different terms in the medium term at worst.

I didn't post the figures under a 'fact' heading, so any errors are due to my heightened state of emotion and taking the VBlock approach....:emoticon-0105-wink:

What we risk now is an entirely 'confidence' driven economic slump, which has been stirred up by the Remain side. It risks becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
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I don't know the answer Sooper. We all choose where we live. Affordability of housing is a part of our decision. Property in London was always expensive. When I lived there in the eighties, I remember paying something like 60% of my entire monthly salary on my first month's mortgage.

The difference now is the rental sector is out of control. I bought my current place six years ago and my mortgage then was 70% more than the rent I paid on the flat I moved from. Now that flat costs more to rent than my mortgage. To those hoping to buy they haven't got a prayer as by time they save a deposit the prices are out of sight, it will create a major crisis for key services whose employees will not be able to afford to live anywhere near where they work...
 
Penny Mordaunt chooses to flat out lie about UK veto on Turkey joining the EU, saying we don't have one.

*****WARNING TRUE FACTS FOLLOWING******

Each of the 28 member states has a veto on enlarging the EU.

Any new accession has to be agreed by all 28 in the Council of Ministers (national Government representatives), after countries wishing to join have met the standards required. None of the current potential applicants are anywhere near meeting these criteria.

Then the European Parliament also has to agree. Including all those UKIP, French National Front and other populist paranoiac right wing political groups.

Then we have a second veto, as the treaty change required would need to be ratified by each of the Parliaments of the existing member states, ie the Houses of Commons and Lords.

So both the EU and national executives and legislatures have vetos.

**********BACK TO EMOTION**********
Is that not 'democratic enough'? Perhaps we should each have an individual veto on everything.

Mordaunt is either a conscious liar or an ignorant ****ing idiot, probably both. She could have made her point simply by saying she did not believe that the UK would exercise its veto, and neither would a single one of the other 27 states based on her in depth knowledge of **** all. But not scary enough presumably.

Can't speak for Mordaunt but Sky had an excellent interview with David Owen. He confirmed the existence of the veto but said in practice it is meaningless. A few months ago, in the negotiations with Turkey over the migrant crisis, the UK among others in the EU committed to energising and reactivating Turkey's application to join the EU. In the meantime, visa-free travel for Turkey's citizens was promised in Schengen. With this background, Owen says is that if any Eu country vetoes Turkey's reasonable application to the EU, Turkey would threaten to leave NATO which would throw that organization into crisis since it relies heaviy on Turkish intelligence in the disputes in the Middle East.
 
The difference now is the rental sector is out of control. I bought my current place six years ago and my mortgage then was 70% more than the rent I paid on the flat I moved from. Now that flat costs more to rent than my mortgage. To those hoping to buy they haven't got a prayer as by time they save a deposit the prices are out of sight, it will create a major crisis for key services whose employees will not be able to afford to live anywhere near where they work...
We had similar problems here prior to the 2008 economic crisis and the sky high house prices/mortgages were largely to blame for the severe crash we suffered. House prices and rents probably halved between 2008 and 2012. The crash also resulted in house building being brought to a complete stop. In the meantime, our population continues to grow to a point where now we have a huge housing shortage and hundreds of families homeless or living in temporary hotel accommodation. House prices have recovered and grown in the last 3 or 4 years but they are just about affordable for the ordinary couple. People have to have 20% deposit before they can apply for a mortgage. I know many people who have moved out of London as they simply couldn't afford to live there. I feel sorry for young people trying to get on the ladder. Brexit might help as house prices may well drop if there is an economic downturn???
 
Can't speak for Mordaunt but Sky had an excellent interview with David Owen. He confirmed the existence of the veto but said in practice it is meaningless. A few months ago, in the negotiations with Turkey over the migrant crisis, the UK among others in the EU committed to energising and reactivating Turkey's application to join the EU. In the meantime, visa-free travel for Turkey's citizens was promised in Schengen. With this background, Owen says is that if any Eu country vetoes Turkey's reasonable application to the EU, Turkey would threaten to leave NATO which would throw that organization into crisis since it relies heaviy on Turkish intelligence in the disputes in the Middle East.
In which case why isn't Turkey a member already if they want to be? Mordaunt lied, and that really pisses me off.

I've spelled out the process, whatever David 'splitter' Owen says, and there are multiple opportunities for veto. The ultimate sanction would be, of course, a U.K. Government voting to let them in in clear opposition to the wishes of the electorate (if that is the case) which would then lead to that government being kicked out at the next election and probably another referendum. If it comes to their own jobs v something that the public don't care about like NATO, I'm afraid my opinion of politicians is such that I only see it going one way. Anyway, do you know how much cash the Turks get from the US to allow them bases in Turkey?
 
We had similar problems here prior to the 2008 economic crisis and the sky high house prices/mortgages were largely to blame for the severe crash we suffered. House prices and rents probably halved between 2008 and 2012. The crash also resulted in house building being brought to a complete stop. In the meantime, our population continues to grow to a point where now we have a huge housing shortage and hundreds of families homeless or living in temporary hotel accommodation. House prices have recovered and grown in the last 3 or 4 years but they are just about affordable for the ordinary couple. People have to have 20% deposit before they can apply for a mortgage. I know many people who have moved out of London as they simply couldn't afford to live there. I feel sorry for young people trying to get on the ladder. Brexit might help as house prices may well drop if there is an economic downturn???

The problem now is that house prices outside London are rising sharply, my daughter bought her first place just outside Dartford for £250k two and a half years ago, they had it valued recently at £310k, the prices are unreal and anywhere within 50 miles of London is now becoming unattainable for those on even above-average pay unless, like my daughter, the bank of mum & dad help out...
 
In which case why isn't Turkey a member already if they want to be? Mordaunt lied, and that really pisses me off.

I've spelled out the process, whatever David 'splitter' Owen says, and there are multiple opportunities for veto. The ultimate sanction would be, of course, a U.K. Government voting to let them in in clear opposition to the wishes of the electorate (if that is the case) which would then lead to that government being kicked out at the next election and probably another referendum. If it comes to their own jobs v something that the public don't care about like NATO, I'm afraid my opinion of politicians is such that I only see it going one way. Anyway, do you know how much cash the Turks get from the US to allow them bases in Turkey?

In answer to your first question, Turkey accepts that it has to meet certain requirements - when it feels it has reasonably met those, it will expect the EU to honour its side of the bargain. Its leverage is obviously twofold - NATO and being the immigration bufferzone for the EU. It has a strong bargaining position, and I doubt the funds the US pays will match the benefits of EU membership and free movement of it citizens to live and work anywhere in Europe.

As to domestic politicians considering the veto, I think there would have to be another referendum.
 
The problem now is that house prices outside London are rising sharply, my daughter bought her first place just outside Dartford for £250k two and a half years ago, they had it valued recently at £310k, the prices are unreal and anywhere within 50 miles of London is now becoming unattainable for those on even above-average pay unless, like my daughter, the bank of mum & dad help out...
You London taxi drivers are paid too much :emoticon-0102-bigsm.
 
The problem now is that house prices outside London are rising sharply, my daughter bought her first place just outside Dartford for £250k two and a half years ago, they had it valued recently at £310k, the prices are unreal and anywhere within 50 miles of London is now becoming unattainable for those on even above-average pay unless, like my daughter, the bank of mum & dad help out...
It's extreme in London Sooper, but pretty awful almost anywhere in England you would actually want to live. Two bed flat on a busy road in Leamington Spa £300k. Still, at least Monaco is still more expensive......
 
That table only includes exports. I think if you include imports, the UK will be in first place ahead of the US. Contrary to popular belief, our main exports are not Guinness or Kerrygold (sorry Ciarrai) but pharmaceuticals and computer equipment.
that's the answer I wanted not your touchy first response. No wonder I want out
 
Do the French and other EU nationals living in London not speak English? The free movement of people within the EU is a two way street. I would say UK nationals living in France, Spain, Ireland and Portugal are pretty substantial as well. Many of them sell their properties in London and other parts of your country and move to the Mediterranean countries to enjoy their retirement years in the sun.
takiing all the jobs over there are they, those pesky pensioners
 
now I know where all those lost Glaxo jobs in Greenford went, much like Cadburys and Gillette. Double whammy, millions of them coming over here and we send some of our biggest employers to all corners of Europe