Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Probably the most depressing thing Inhave read recently, although it's just confirming what we suspect d. 76% of students think that people who have views that they may find offensive should not be allowed to speak at universities.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...3?shareToken=c7172aeeae58411b45a872b4396ea8c2

I can't only hope that the 1,000 survey sample was somehow skewed. Otherwise the naturally curious, debate oriented, kids who realise that dialectic is how we learn and test our opinions will simply disengage, keep their heads down and spend even more time in off campus bars. And lying in.

 

[Chaz]

Probably the most depressing thing Inhave read recently, although it's just confirming what we suspect d. 76% of students think that people who have views that they may find offensive should not be allowed to speak at universities.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...3?shareToken=c7172aeeae58411b45a872b4396ea8c2

I can't only hope that the 1,000 survey sample was somehow skewed. Otherwise the naturally curious, debate oriented, kids who realise that dialectic is how we learn and test our opinions will simply disengage, keep their heads down and spend even more time in off campus bars. And lying in.

I think that people who respond to surveys want their opinion to be heard, and almost by default wouldn't want opposing opinions to have a platform. This question probably isn't the best one to gauge via a survey...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Probably the most depressing thing Inhave read recently, although it's just confirming what we suspect d. 76% of students think that people who have views that they may find offensive should not be allowed to speak at universities.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...3?shareToken=c7172aeeae58411b45a872b4396ea8c2

I can't only hope that the 1,000 survey sample was somehow skewed. Otherwise the naturally curious, debate oriented, kids who realise that dialectic is how we learn and test our opinions will simply disengage, keep their heads down and spend even more time in off campus bars. And lying in.

This is indeed depressing. The NUS has admittedly always has been led by the loony and unworldly Left, but there something more extreme coming in. At the risk of being branded a racist, may I suggest we are importing students from countries that do not have free speech as a traditional value.

 

[sb_73]

This is indeed depressing. The NUS has admittedly always has been led by the loony and unworldly Left, but there something more extreme coming in. At the risk of being branded a racist, may I suggest we are importing students from countries that do not have free speech as a traditional value.

I read that the leader of the protests against against the statue of Cecil Rhodes is a South African student and......a Rhodes Scholar. I don't know about your theory on foreign students and free speech, but I am sure that the financial drive by universities to enrol high paying foreigners must have an impact on their policies. My local university, Warwick, has a huge number of mainland Chinese students and we know all about the Chinese government's views on freedom of expression. God forbid that we cut off the income stream by upsetting them. I go to that campus occassionally as they have some good stuff on at the Arts Centre (Al Murray on my last visit). There are walls covered with clearly centrally produced pro China fly posters. I had to supress a strong urge to start defacing them.

I suppose we should draw some lines between freedom of speech and downright lying though, but that is for the Referendum thread....

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I read that the leader of the protests against against the statue of Cecil Rhodes is a South African student and......a Rhodes Scholar. I don't know about your theory on foreign students and free speech, but I am sure that the financial drive by universities to enrol high paying foreigners must have an impact on their policies. My local university, Warwick, has a huge number of mainland Chinese students and we know all about the Chinese government's views on freedom of expression. God forbid that we cut off the income stream by upsetting them. I go to that campus occassionally as they have some good stuff on at the Arts Centre (Al Murray on my last visit). There are walls covered with clearly centrally produced pro China fly posters. I had to supress a strong urge to start defacing them.

I suppose we should draw some lines between freedom of speech and downright lying though, but that is for the Referendum thread....

Free speech incorporates the right to lie, but suffer the consequences when you're found out (pertinent with the Chilcot Enquiry reporting in July).

I hope normal, broad-minded, inquisitive, right-minded students will rise up against the NUS. There's no place for totalitarian control over our young people.

PS. glad you resisted the temptation to deface pro China fly posters. Ask for them when they're finished, so you can cut them into squares and use them for something useful in the smallest room of the house

 

[Sooperhoop]

I read that the leader of the protests against against the statue of Cecil Rhodes is a South African student and......a Rhodes Scholar. I don't know about your theory on foreign students and free speech, but I am sure that the financial drive by universities to enrol high paying foreigners must have an impact on their policies. My local university, Warwick, has a huge number of mainland Chinese students and we know all about the Chinese government's views on freedom of expression. God forbid that we cut off the income stream by upsetting them. I go to that campus occassionally as they have some good stuff on at the Arts Centre (Al Murray on my last visit). There are walls covered with clearly centrally produced pro China fly posters. I had to supress a strong urge to start defacing them.

I suppose we should draw some lines between freedom of speech and downright lying though, but that is for the Referendum thread....

There is a massive influx of Chinese/Hong Kong students in London. Much of this is fuelled by companies providing new-build student accommodation throughout the capital. These are built for rental profit and student's families pay a full year rental in advance, it's like printing money for the companies that own them. My company often get block bookings of up to 100 jobs at Heathrow transporting the students to their buildings. In certain parts of the Isle of Dogs the road signs are written in Chinese as well as English, many students live in luxury flats in Canary Wharf paid for by their rich parents.

There are also many Russian and other far eastern nationality students coming over in massive numbers. In fact I had one English parent in my car the other week saying nearly half the pupils in his son's class at St Paul's School were Russian, so the face of our so called elite schools are changing as well...

 

[cor blymie]

I see the supermarkets are claiming food will rocket if we leave. Why should we listen to them? Tesco caught telling porkies about profits so the share price wouldn't plummet. The others in the gang of 4 who refused to pay our Dairy Farmers a decent price for their milk, resulting in many folding. We can all shop at Aldi if things get too costly, though why home grown produce should go sky high if we leave puzzles me. Scaremongering barstewards

 

[sb_73]

Penny Mordaunt chooses to flat out lie about UK veto on Turkey joining the EU, saying we don't have one.

*****WARNING TRUE FACTS FOLLOWING******

Each of the 28 member states has a veto on enlarging the EU.

Any new accession has to be agreed by all 28 in the Council of Ministers (national Government representatives), after countries wishing to join have met the standards required. None of the current potential applicants are anywhere near meeting these criteria.

Then the European Parliament also has to agree. Including all those UKIP, French National Front and other populist paranoiac right wing political groups.

Then we have a second veto, as the treaty change required would need to be ratified by each of the Parliaments of the existing member states, ie the Houses of Commons and Lords.

So both the EU and national executives and legislatures have vetos.

**********BACK TO EMOTION**********
Is that not 'democratic enough'? Perhaps we should each have an individual veto on everything.

Mordaunt is either a conscious liar or an ignorant ****ing idiot, probably both. She could have made her point simply by saying she did not believe that the UK would exercise its veto, and neither would a single one of the other 27 states based on her in depth knowledge of **** all. But not scary enough presumably.

 

[KooPeeArr]

I have, for my sins, read this whole thread from start to finish in the last few days. It is hugely beneficial to have anything newsworthy collated and shared by so many passionately vociferous posters (for both sides) on here so well done all.

One oft stated inconsistency maintained throughout the thread has struck me - apparently there won't be any additional difficulties trading with the EU should we leave (it has been mentioned dozens of times that we're the 5th biggest economy) but, if we stay in, the other 26 or 28 countries will suddenly unify and contrive to conspire against us on all votes because we're not in the Eurozone. Unless I've repeatedly misread it that is.

I do wonder what happens with sales tax though - as it stands I believe that it is only chargeable in the origin country so presumably we'd need a deal in we leave to ensure that it isn't charged twice (or would that not be an issue) which would negatively affect our ability to export and the price we pay on imports.

Anyway, unsurprisingly, since I feel more inclined to rank priorities from global, european, UK, English and town / local community in descending order and feel that I am adequately represented either by those elected or by their chosen representatives in a fairly proportionate way (probably with a greater representation if truth be told) then I am voting remain.

Anyway, well done all for a fiercely but mostly amicably fought debate - keep it coming.

 

[sb_73]

I have, for my sins, read this whole thread from start to finish in the last few days. It is hugely beneficial to have anything newsworthy collated and shared by so many passionately vociferous posters (for both sides) on here so well done all.

One oft stated inconsistency maintained throughout the thread has struck me - apparently there won't be any additional difficulties trading with the EU should we leave (it has been mentioned dozens of times that we're the 5th biggest economy) but, if we stay in, the other 26 or 28 countries will suddenly unify and contrive to conspire against us on all votes because we're not in the Eurozone. Unless I've repeatedly misread it that is.

I do wonder what happens with sales tax though - as it stands I believe that it is only chargeable in the origin country so presumably we'd need a deal in we leave to ensure that it isn't charged twice (or would that not be an issue) which would negatively affect our ability to export and the price we pay on imports.

Anyway, unsurprisingly, since I feel more inclined to rank priorities from global, european, UK, English and town / local community in descending order and feel that I am adequately represented either by those elected or by their chosen representatives in a fairly proportionate way (probably with a greater representation if truth be told) then I am voting remain.

Anyway, well done all for a fiercely but mostly amicably fought debate - keep it coming.

Bloody hell Matt, all 58 pages? Your commitment is laudable.

I think your interpretation of the arguments re trade are correct. I have no idea about sales tax. The 5th biggest economy stuff is irrelevant. 45% of our exports go to the EU. 16% of EU exports go to the UK. Not a single EU country has the UK as its top trading partner, and we are not even in the top 3 for Germany. A way will be found to trade if we leave, I have no doubt, but it won't necessarily be found quickly and easily.

 

[finglasqpr]

Bloody hell Matt, all 58 pages? Your commitment is laudable.

I think your interpretation of the arguments re trade are correct. I have no idea about sales tax. The 5th biggest economy stuff is irrelevant. 45% of our exports go to the EU. 16% of EU exports go to the UK. Not a single EU country has the UK as its top trading partner, and we are not even in the top 3 for Germany. A way will be found to trade if we leave, I have no doubt, but it won't necessarily be found quickly and easily.

I wouldn't agree with that Stan. The UK is by far Ireland's largest trading partner. The UK does more business with the 5m people of Ireland that it does with the billions of people in China, India and Brazil combined.

 

[cor blymie]

I wouldn't agree with that Stan. The UK is by far Ireland's largest trading partner. The UK does more business with the 5m people of Ireland that it does with the billions of people in China, India and Brazil combined.

apart from Kerrygold and a pint of the black stuff, can you tell me what other goods we purchase. And I'm not being sarcastic

 

[Sooperhoop]

my mate lives in Chiswick, he tells me if you drive around Brentford at night, there are hardly any lights on the new flats built by the river. Seems like overseas buyers in abundance

Virtually every new development along the Thames in London is marketed abroad, most of the firms sell 100% off plan via sales offices in Moscow, St Petersburg, Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai. Many of the flats remain empty and those occupied are done so by those foreign nationals. Many of the existing riverside buildings also have the same national make-up to which you can add most of the oil-rich middle eastern nationalities. That's why ropey 3 bed semis in the suburbs are so ridiculously expensive now and it will continue unabated...

 

[finglasqpr]

apart from Kerrygold and a pint of the black stuff, can you tell me what other goods we purchase. And I'm not being sarcastic

I'll tell you something, stop listening to Nige and go google it.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Bloody hell Matt, all 58 pages? Your commitment is laudable.

I think your interpretation of the arguments re trade are correct. I have no idea about sales tax. The 5th biggest economy stuff is irrelevant. 45% of our exports go to the EU. 16% of EU exports go to the UK. Not a single EU country has the UK as its top trading partner, and we are not even in the top 3 for Germany. A way will be found to trade if we leave, I have no doubt, but it won't necessarily be found quickly and easily.

Laudable or laughable? I lost track of the thread for a couple of months and couldn't find a starting point that didn't refer to something previous.

 

[finglasqpr]

Virtually every new development along the Thames in London is marketed abroad, most of the firms sell 100% off plan via sales offices in Moscow, St Petersburg, Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai. Many of the flats remain empty and those occupied are done so by those foreign nationals. Many of the existing riverside buildings also have the same national make-up to which you can add most of the oil-rich middle eastern nationalities. That's why ropey 3 bed semis in the suburbs are so ridiculously expensive now and it will continue unabated...

So, house prices for ordinary people in the UK are being driven up due to sales from Russia, China and the Middle East. What has that got to do with the EU? If you leave the EU, will house prices go down or continue to go up?

 

[sb_73]

I wouldn't agree with that Stan. The UK is by far Ireland's largest trading partner. The UK does more business with the 5m people of Ireland that it does with the billions of people in China, India and Brazil combined.

Yes, that doesn't look right, I'll go back and dig out the stats. Also what I meant by trading partner, was the country that they export most to. I should have been clearer. Give me a few minutes, just preparing the roast.......

 

[finglasqpr]

Yes, that doesn't look right, I'll go back and dig out the stats. Also what I meant by trading partner, was the country that they export most to. I should have been clearer. Give me a few minutes, just preparing the roast.......

Make sure you include the kerrygold and Guinness stats, just for Nige's mate.

 

[sb_73]

Make sure you include the kerrygold and Guinness stats, just for Nige's mate.

There you go Fingy, we are second biggest export market for you blokes, you must send a lot of butter and Guinness to the USA.....

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[Sooperhoop]

So, house prices for ordinary people in the UK are being driven up due to sales from Russia, China and the Middle East. What has that got to do with the EU? If you leave the EU, will house prices go down or continue to go up?

That's just the top end of the market, the middle sector is so squeezed by many EU nationals that house prices for everyone are being forced up, London is becoming a place that only the wealthy can afford to buy in and everyone else is forced now to rent unless they move to the suburbs or beyond. Kensington, for example has a French National population that would make it one of France's larger cities.

Those at the bottom on housing benefits are shielded from this so there's a really strange mix. There's no point in moaning about it now, it's too far gone to rectify but London in another 20 years is going to be a place in which English will be a minority language...