Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

More multinationals (that have no interest in or loyalty to the UK except how much money they squeeze out) are coming out today in favour of remain.

Increasingly, this referendum is about the power of corporate money v the people.

Expect huge pressure from the Cameron/Osborne Corporate Front over the next four weeks and use of the dark arts.

Interesting perspective Goldie. Loyalty is a one way track in many instances. As someone who works for a (US) multinational (which has no declared position on the referendum) and lives in the UK I can tell you without hesitation that the performance of my company has greater impact on my general wellbeing than the performance of the U.K., though if the latter were to go down the pan I would certainly suffer and not enjoy it. Neither my company nor the UK can show any loyalty to me, because they don't have emotions.

Multinationals are potentially much more malign than the EU, because they are genuinely unaccountable except to other companies that hold major stakes in them, and they are relentless in their non patriotic pursuit of profit. But there is no meaningful line between 'nasty' multinationals and 'nice' smaller companies because most of them are dependent on each other, it's how the supply and distribution chain works. So if one multinational decides to relocate some of its operations out of the U.K. It's not just the direct employees who will suffer, there are much broader repercussions. It's likely that 'the people' are just as dependent on the success of multinationals, even if they don't work for one and are ignorant of their relationship to them, as the on UK plc (a joke of a concept).

Multinationals also have no interest in the UK becoming a weaker economy, because then it is a less profitable place to do business. They may have other logistical reasons for wanting us to stay in the EU, but I'm guessing they genuinely believe that we will be better off in. Of course they don't give a rat's arse about sovereignty and immigration.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Interesting perspective Goldie. Loyalty is a one way track in many instances. As someone who works for a (US) multinational (which has no declared position on the referendum) and lives in the UK I can tell you without hesitation that the performance of my company has greater impact on my general wellbeing than the performance of the U.K., though if the latter were to go down the pan I would certainly suffer and not enjoy it. Neither my company nor the UK can show any loyalty to me, because they don't have emotions.

Multinationals are potentially much more malign than the EU, because they are genuinely unaccountable except to other companies that hold major stakes in them, and they are relentless in their non patriotic pursuit of profit. But there is no meaningful line between 'nasty' multinationals and 'nice' smaller companies because most of them are dependent on each other, it's how the supply and distribution chain works. So if one multinational decides to relocate some of its operations out of the U.K. It's not just the direct employees who will suffer, there are much broader repercussions. It's likely that 'the people' are just as dependent on the success of multinationals, even if they don't work for one and are ignorant of their relationship to them, as the on UK plc (a joke of a concept).

Multinationals also have no interest in the UK becoming a weaker economy, because then it is a less profitable place to do business. They may have other logistical reasons for wanting us to stay in the EU, but I'm guessing they genuinely believe that we will be better off in. Of course they don't give a rat's arse about sovereignty and immigration.

Good post, Stan. Money and profit are the gods of the multinationals, and no problem with that at all, so long as we remember that if the people in the UK face overcrowding, lack of social cohesion, queues for the doctor, failure to get into the local oversubcribed school etc, and more seriously, greater security risks, then multinationals are indifferent. So too, if smaller businesses find EU regulations intolerable. The multinationals have huge lobbying power in Brussels to get the regulations that suit them, and tough on the smaller fish.

They don't care about the living conditions of those that don't work for them, they just want life to be easy and treating the UK as part of an EU country is part of that.

We mustn't lose sight of this.

 

[sb_73]

Good post, Stan. Money and profit are the gods of the multinationals, and no problem with that at all, so long as we remember that if the people in the UK face overcrowding, lack of social cohesion, queues for the doctor, failure to get into the local oversubcribed school etc, and more seriously, greater security risks, then multinationals are indifferent. So too, if smaller businesses find EU regulations intolerable. The multinationals have huge lobbying power in Brussels to get the regulations that suit them, and tough on the smaller fish.

They don't care about the living conditions of those that don't work for them, they just want life to be easy and treating the UK as part of an EU country is part of that.

We mustn't lose sight of this.

I'm finding it interesting seeing those of the Tory persuasion having a pop at hugely successful capitalist behemoths. I still think the 'smaller fish' have in most cases a symbiotic relationship with the basking sharks.

You are indeed members of a broad church.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I'm finding it interesting seeing those of the Tory persuasion having a pop at hugely successful capitalist behemoths. I still think the 'smaller fish' have in most cases a symbiotic relationship with the basking sharks.

You are indeed members of a broad church.

Basking shark? Multinationals? Nice try, Stan, but I think we should try Great White...

Some of the smaller fish will benefit from uneaten pickings, but most try to compete or just hope not to be eaten

On the subject of fish, there was an owner of a Smoked Salmon factory that had to spend large amounts of money on changing his packaging because the EU insisted he included the words "contains fish" on the back of the Smoked Salmon packet. Mad

 

[TootingExcess]

Basking shark? Multinationals? Nice try, Stan, but I think we should try Great White...

Some of the smaller fish will benefit from uneaten pickings, but most try to compete or just hope not to be eaten

On the subject of fish, there was an owner of a Smoked Salmon factory that had to spend large amounts of money on changing his packaging because the EU insisted he included the words "contains fish" on the back of the Smoked Salmon packet. Mad

That was to do with allergy information being displayed on food packaging Goldie - do you think that's something we could do without in the event of a Brexit?

Do you not think that UK legislation would not enact something similar - or more likely had those rules in place anyway? There's a fellow in court in Yorkshire charged with not showing that a curry in his restaurant contained peanuts - and the bloke died.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

That was to do with allergy information being displayed on food packaging Goldie - do you think that's something we could do without in the event of a Brexit?

Do you not think that UK legislation would not enact something similar - or more likely had those rules in place anyway? There's a fellow in court in Yorkshire charged with not showing that a curry in his restaurant contained peanuts - and the bloke died.

Tooting, I'd say there's a massive difference between having to put "contains fish" on a packet of smoked salmon, and marking made-up products like curries which contain peanuts which we know can be a killer.

It's like selling a leg of lamb and putting on the packaging "contains meat".

 

[TootingExcess]

Tooting, I'd say there's a massive difference between having to put "contains fish" on a packet of smoked salmon, and marking made-up products like curries which contain peanuts which we know can be a killer.

It's like selling a leg of lamb and putting on the packaging "contains meat".

Not really because unlike fish or peanuts - "meat" isn't an allergen. So if that fellow also sells lamb - he won't need to add "contains meat" to his packaging. My daughter was milk protein intolerant until she was 3 - its useful information that I'm sure won't be going away if we leave the EU.

But my main point is that a lot of the guff about EU regs - is that most of it we'd have the same rules anyway because its useful regulations. I don't doubt both the UK and the EU has the odd stupid rule - but not enough to vex me either way.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Not really because unlike fish or peanuts - "meat" isn't an allergen. So if that fellow also sells lamb - he won't need to add "contains meat" to his packaging. My daughter was milk protein intolerant until she was 3 - its useful information that I'm sure won't be going away if we leave the EU.

But my main point is that a lot of the guff about EU regs - is that most of it we'd have the same rules anyway because its useful regulations. I don't doubt both the UK and the EU has the odd stupid rule - but not enough to vex me either way.

I take your point about allergens, but I'm just saying that if something is obviously fish being named as Salmon, is it really necessary to insist that sellers destroy all their packaging and devise new that says "contains fish". If a person suffers from an allergy to fish and doesn't know that a salmon is a fish, that person has bigger problems than food intolerances

On vexing, I guess you'd have to be a small businessman that has to abide by a lot of unnecessary red tape to suffer. (I don't know if you are). There does appear to be a lot of stuff from Brussels that is over-bureaucratic and aimed at big public companies, multinationals etc, which, re economies of scale, are not needed for your average sole trader etc.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Blimey, doesn't any of you have jobs to do during the week? I have no idea how you find the time to contribute to the extent that you do.

Will this spare time during the working day be curtailed in the event of a Brexit?

 

[TheBigDipper]

I take your point about allergens, but I'm just saying that if something is obviously fish being named as Salmon, is it really necessary to insist that sellers destroy all their packaging and devise new that says "contains fish".

Seems daft to me, too.

I think the point being made was that this daftness is not an EU issue, but a "Health & Safety" mentality that is just as likely to be the law even if only UK people were making the rules. Yet people spreading this stuff (I'm talking politicians and newspapers here, not you & me) think "Leave" people are daft enough to think this is yet another reason to leave. Both sides are truly showing how little they think of us all in the way they're making their cases. Luckily, we're smart enough to make our own minds up.

BTW if we do leave, and our companies want to sell their packaged fish to the EU, they'll still have to comply with this sort of thing. Their market, we've no influence, comply or no trade.

On a similar topic, (how little they think of us), I understand the Daily Mail ran a story today about a Polish man who assaulted a British man (as if it mattered what nationality the victim was, or his abilities) in a quite nasty manner just 2 days after entering the UK. He got 12 years. He had previously been convicted of rape and assault in Poland - and I believe he had discharged his sentence. Apparently, according to the people who put it onto FaceBook, we'll get control of our borders back and be able to stop these people entering our country once we leave the EU. Really? We're going to prevent anyone with a discharged conviction entering once we leave? Is that really the sort of country we're going to become? Is that who British people really are?

 

[sb_73]

Seems daft to me, too.

I think the point being made was that this daftness is not an EU issue, but a "Health & Safety" mentality that is just as likely to be the law even if only UK people were making the rules. Yet people spreading this stuff (I'm talking politicians and newspapers here, not you & me) think "Leave" people are daft enough to think this is yet another reason to leave. Both sides are truly showing how little they think of us all in the way they're making their cases. Luckily, we're smart enough to make our own minds up.

BTW if we do leave, and our companies want to sell their packaged fish to the EU, they'll still have to comply with this sort of thing. Their market, we've no influence, comply or no trade.

On a similar topic, (how little they think of us), I understand the Daily Mail ran a story today about a Polish man who assaulted a British man (as if it mattered what nationality the victim was, or his abilities) in a quite nasty manner just 2 days after entering the UK. He got 12 years. He had previously been convicted of rape and assault in Poland - and I believe he had discharged his sentence. Apparently, according to the people who put it onto FaceBook, we'll get control of our borders back and be able to stop these people entering our country once we leave the EU. Really? We're going to prevent anyone with a discharged conviction entering once we leave? Is that really the sort of country we're going to become? Is that who British people really are?

Presumably we will have to find a large, empty, hostile continent to export our own scum to as well, if we are to be entirely true to this ethos.

I'm working in Barcelona for a couple of days (it's a hard life, what a great city this is, but I still prefer Madrid, just) with people from Spain, US, Italy, Germany, France, Belgium and UK. One of the US participants had been looking something up (think it was the Air Egypt stuff) and asked me if the Daily Mail was a reputable source.......

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Sarcasm Warning.

I'm definitely changing my vote to 'remain', because Benedict ****ing Cumberbatch says so.

 

[TootingExcess]

Blimey, doesn't any of you have jobs to do during the week? I have no idea how you find the time to contribute to the extent that you do.

Will this spare time during the working day be curtailed in the event of a Brexit?

Some of us will have a lot more time on their hands in the event of Brexit

 

[cor blymie]

Some of us will have a lot more time on their hands in the event of Brexit

even more if we remain, with the projected 5m added to the population

 

[TootingExcess]

even more if we remain, with the projected 5m added to the population

more project fear scaremongering from Gove. He's plucked those figures out of the air.

No EU govt will vote to allow Turkey to join, never mind a Tory government with Gove and IDS.

 

[sb_73]

Georgie saying that Brexit would hold back house price growth. Even though I am a theoretical beneficiary of this (if I downsize), I struggle to see it as a bad thing, I want my kids to have the chance to buy their own homes at some stage.

 

[cor blymie]

Georgie saying that Brexit would hold back house price growth. Even though I am a theoretical beneficiary of this (if I downsize), I struggle to see it as a bad thing, I want my kids to have the chance to buy their own homes at some stage.

agree, if you lose £20,000 on your house, I assume you'll pay £20,000 less for your new one.

 

[vblockiain]

watched Jeremy Paxmans

more project fear scaremongering from Gove. He's plucked those figures out of the air.

No EU govt will vote to allow Turkey to join, never mind a Tory government with Gove and IDS.

Dont believe it EU stitch will happen as soon as referendum result is out Turkey will be used to dilute power base vote to further remove individual country influence over Federal Europe

 

[sb_73]

agree, if you lose £20,000 on your house, I assume you'll pay £20,000 less for your new one.

The only positive argument I can see for incessant house price inflation is that if people can actually pay off their mortgages before they die their house operates as a surrogate pension pot. Of course they have to sell it and buy somewhere much cheaper to cash in. I am totally bewildered by how the London housing market works. Surely there aren't that many rich Russians and Arabs buying houses or flats in outlying areas, so that a frankly dingy 3 bed semi in Harrow Weald now costs nearly £600k. (I looked up the closest equivalent to where I grew up). It's nuts. Even if you have £200k sitting around you still need a £400k mortgage, and an income which can spare up to £3k a month repayments over 25 years.

 

[cor blymie]

my mate lives in Chiswick, he tells me if you drive around Brentford at night, there are hardly any lights on the new flats built by the river. Seems like overseas buyers in abundance