Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Staines R's said:
After tonight’s discussion on here and after having more thought on it, I’m tending to now agree.
Sadly we will never know the truth
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Mark this day in history! Someone on this Politics Thread actually admitting to maybe being wrong about something, putting their hand up and acknowledging there may be another side to a story after processing the information provided!!! If only some others could be so bold.....
 
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Staines R's said:
A valid and very well thought out post
My argument, often misconstrued, is not that the Russians are “the good guys”.....absolutely far from it, and as you rightly point out pretty ****ing evil.
I just like to also point out that the Ukrainians are also not the “good guys” that western media like to make them out to be.
when you have a war when literal Nazis and killing other literal Nazis...it all seems so ****ed up.
Dunno if you listen to podcasts but Popular Front podcast is very good and might be to your likening......
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Where does this 'nazi' stuff come from? Ukraine is not a racist country, they have a Russian-speaking Ukrainian-Jewish President, the far right there got a tiny % of the vote.

The 'Azov Battalion' got a lot of negative press, but there's more to it than that. When the Russian army invaded Crimea and the Donbass in 2014, the Ukrainian army was pretty much non-existent. The country had been plagued by Russian influence since the breakup of the USSR, it was riddled with corruption and not a democratic country. Their standing army was almost non-existent. When the invasion started they called up anyone who was willing to fight, unfortunately the far-right/hooligans were some of the volunteers. This was a temporary measure, and the Azov Battalion rid themselves of the far right element once the country started rebuilding their forces in preparation for the inevitable upcoming war.

I doubt there's a single Western country without some far-right elements, especially in the football world, it's far from what people portray. Whereas the 'Wagner' group that's currently engaged around Bakhmut is named after Hitler's favourite composer, composed of prisoners sent to war to gain freedom (apparently after 6 months of service). Putin has also been funding far right movements across the world, Le Pen for example is a big fan.
 
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Toby said:
Where does this 'nazi' stuff come from? Ukraine is not a racist country, they have a Russian-speaking Ukrainian-Jewish President, the far right there got a tiny % of the vote.

The 'Azov Battalion' got a lot of negative press, but there's more to it than that. When the Russian army invaded Crimea and the Donbass in 2014, the Ukrainian army was pretty much non-existent. The country had been plagued by Russian influence since the breakup of the USSR, it was riddled with corruption and not a democratic country. Their standing army was almost non-existent. When the invasion started they called up anyone who was willing to fight, unfortunately the far-right/hooligans were some of the volunteers. This was a temporary measure, and the Azov Battalion rid themselves of the far right element once the country started rebuilding their forces in preparation for the inevitable upcoming war.

I doubt there's a single Western country without some far-right elements, especially in the football world, it's far from what people portray. Whereas the 'Wagner' group that's currently engaged around Bakhmut is named after Hitler's favourite composer, composed of prisoners sent to war to gain freedom (apparently after 6 months of service). Putin has also been funding far right movements across the world, Le Pen for example is a big fan.
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We’ll have to disagree on this one.
 
Toby said:
You make it sound like it's their whole army. It's far from that. I doubt there's a single army in the world without far right member.
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That may be.....however it’s an undeniable fact that I stand by.

I also disagree that Ukraine is not “a racist country”.......history shows it differently.
Again, just my opinion that you’re free to disagree with.
 
Staines R's said:
That may be.....however it’s an undeniable fact that I stand by.

I also disagree that Ukraine is not “a racist country”.......history shows it differently.
Again, just my opinion that you’re free to disagree with.
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I've been there several times. Never seen anything to make me think that.

I've seen many more examples of open racism in this country tbh.
 
Toby said:
I've been there several times. Never seen anything to make me think that.

I've seen many more examples of open racism in this country tbh.
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might be because you aren't black (i've made that assumption). There was plenty of racism for black players and black fans and even black/brown refugees when ukraine was invaded
 
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Hoop-Leif said:
What a cess-pit for scuzzbuckets this country has become.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64536926
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Interesting article. I fail to understand why the Government is so weak on this matter.

Just issue a compulsory purchase order for a nominal £1 unless the actual owner turns up in person at court to explain why the property shouldn't be purchased. Every property discovered in this way should be handed to Dear Suella Braverman to convert into a multi-occupancy migrant hotel. That will save the tax payer millions in hotel costs and scare the owners ****le** as to what state their property will end up in. The £1 proceeds will only be sent to a named individual not a cover company, trust or any other body. I'm sure Sadiqque Khan will be rubbing his hands at the prospect especially if it means taking property away from "questionable" Conservative donors.
 
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BobbyD said:
might be because you aren't black (i've made that assumption). There was plenty of racism for black players and black fans and even black/brown refugees when ukraine was invaded
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They prioritised women and children over young men. Their skin colour was irrelevant.

I've never said there was no racism in Ukraine, of course there it. Same as here, France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Poland, etc...

It's not a racist country/culture though. There are lots of Uni students from poorer countries studying there quite happily. The 'nazi' things really pisses me off, they have a Jewish President and no plans (as far as I know) to invade Poland.
 
Toby said:
They prioritised women and children over young men. Their skin colour was irrelevant.

I've never said there was no racism in Ukraine, of course there it. Same as here, France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Poland, etc...

It's not a racist country/culture though. There are lots of Uni students from poorer countries studying there quite happily. The 'nazi' things really pisses me off, they have a Jewish President and no plans (as far as I know) to invade Poland.
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A quick google

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/04/ukraine-unequal-treatment-foreigners-attempting-flee

Rugiatu Faith Maxey, 22, a United States citizen originally from Sierra Leone, was in Ukraine visiting her Sierra Leonian fiancé in Dnipro. She said the driver of a commercial bus announced that “all blacks need to get off the bus” when they approached the border with Poland. She remained on the bus after her group and Ukrainian passengers protested. “Eventually we got through in the line with Ukrainians, but we really had to push for that, and it was helpful that I was American and got the embassy involved,” she said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/europe/students-allege-racism-ukraine-cmd-intl/index.html

Rachel Onyegbule, a Nigerian first-year medical student in Lviv was left stranded at the border town of Shehyni, some 400 miles from Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.

She told CNN: “More than 10 buses came and we were watching everyone leave. We thought after they took all the Ukrainians they would take us, but they told us we had to walk, that there were no more buses and told us to walk.”

“My body was numb from the cold and we haven’t slept in about 4 days now. Ukrainians have been prioritized over Africans – men and women – at every point. There’s no need for us to ask why. We know why. I just want to get home,” Onyegbule told CNN in a telephone call Sunday as she waited in line at the border to cross into Poland.

Saakshi Ijantkar, a fourth-year medical student from India, also shared her ordeal with CNN Monday via a phone call from Lviv, western Ukraine.

“There are three checkposts we need to go through to get to the border. A lot of people are stranded there. They don’t allow Indians to go through.

Just a few stories for you Toby
 
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Toby said:
They prioritised women and children over young men. Their skin colour was irrelevant.

I've never said there was no racism in Ukraine, of course there it. Same as here, France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Poland, etc...

It's not a racist country/culture though. There are lots of Uni students from poorer countries studying there quite happily. The 'nazi' things really pisses me off, they have a Jewish President and no plans (as far as I know) to invade Poland.
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With respect, when a poll in 2022 came out in a 74% favourable rating for the Ukrainian Nationalist and Anti-Semite , Stepan Bandera…..with museums to his memory and streets named in his honour……i kind of struggle to not see Ukraine as a racist/facist/nationalist country.
I’m happy to be convinced otherwise
 
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