That would be a dumb thing to do
Especially if it allows the bad guys to retaliate in kind or worse
Have the good guys done that
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Especially if it allows the bad guys to retaliate in kind or worse
Have the good guys done that
Apparently Russia's state investigative committee is examining the alleged use of chemical weapons by Ukrainian forces near Soledar and Bakhmut - Selenskiy is saying ''No we didn't''. So, once again we don't know what to believe - there has been no proof delivered either way. I'm inclined to believe that Selenskiy wouldn't use things like this because otherwise the West might hesitate to give him the further toys he needs - but how much control does he have over the activities of his army ? Probably no more than Putin does.
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I’m no expert but seems pretty conclusive to me.....however by pointing this out, this does not make any excuse for the heinous war crimes committed by Russia. Just the fact that there are no good guys in war.
That's just a mortar or some other type of grenade. What kind of chemical weapons explode on impact when dropped from a commercially available drone?Russians have been dropping thermite on civilians for months, never seen anyone criticise them for it. That's only one of the thousands of war crimes they've committed.
PS: That twitter account is a Russian propaganda account spreading fake videos.
Russians have been dropping thermite on civilians for months, never seen anyone criticise them for it. That's only one of the thousands of war crimes they've committed.
PS: That twitter account is a Russian propaganda account spreading fake videos.
And your expertise ? As I said I’m no expert in anyway so if you are then I will stand corrected.
Agree the Russians have done, and are doing, some vile disgusting stuff...so do we say that two wrongs make a right and we all ignore the bad stuff “our side” does....or do we talk about it openly like civilised human beings.
And yep, seems that Twitter is pro-Russian....
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I'm no military expert, but have been following the war closely for personal reasons. The Ukrainians have mastered the art of converting civilian drones into mini war-machines. They attach grenades or mortars that explode on impact.
Ukrainian soldiers and ex-military frequently debunk videos from their own side if the claims made are false, they don't lie about things on the scale the Russians do. That video was obviously tampered too btw, sped up to make things look worse. From my basic knowledge of chemical weapons I've never heard of small vials being dropped that explode on impact and instantly kill people, have you?
Fair enough and fair points. Wouldn’t be beyond the Russians of course to spread malicious propaganda.
And yes I had noticed that the video was “sped up”.....but didn’t think anything of it. Don’t know enough about chemical weapons to say what can be made/exploded/kill time etc......but that “kill” didn’t look instant.
So chemical war weapons ...on the main have been gases "mustard" gases or chlorine.
You could not carry enough in a small vial, even on explosion ( and dispersion) to kill anyone.
Could it be a drug chemical ..
Novachok, ricin...a huge huge cost involved in producing ( without killing the producers) in producing such a thing.
But it could exist.
Something different...who knows, I don't know.
It don't look real chemical warfare to me much more conventional, but I really don't know
You could not carry enough in a small vial, even on explosion ( and dispersion) to kill anyone.
Could it be a drug chemical ..
Novachok, ricin...a huge huge cost involved in producing ( without killing the producers) in producing such a thing.
But it could exist.
Something different...who knows, I don't know.
It don't look real chemical warfare to me much more conventional, but I really don't know
So could it have been some kind of nerve agent ? And could it have been carried in such a weapon as has been shown ? And if it was (lots of ifs I know), could it have caused death relatively quickly.
Sorry for all the questions but genuinely interested in your opinion as someone who certainly knows far more than most on here about the subject.
So ricin...once it gets inside your body kills fairly quickly...just looked it up...and it is 18 to 24 hours.
Plutonium...rots you from the inside takes days.
Novichok...we seen from Salisbury probably takes at least 12 hours.
So all unlikely.
A nerve gas, kills in minutes, chlorine in seconds..but cannot imagine that enough gas could be carried in a vial which explodes and disperses its contents.
But we didn't know about novachok until it arrived in Salisbury...so who really knows.
I worked on Sarin for a while...and if you got sprayed with Sarin ( or equivalent) liquid....it could produce those sort of effects.
But again where us sarin being made ( and again difficult to put into a vial) etc.
If it were me. I would just drop grenades on the F*****
Plutonium...rots you from the inside takes days.
Novichok...we seen from Salisbury probably takes at least 12 hours.
So all unlikely.
A nerve gas, kills in minutes, chlorine in seconds..but cannot imagine that enough gas could be carried in a vial which explodes and disperses its contents.
But we didn't know about novachok until it arrived in Salisbury...so who really knows.
I worked on Sarin for a while...and if you got sprayed with Sarin ( or equivalent) liquid....it could produce those sort of effects.
But again where us sarin being made ( and again difficult to put into a vial) etc.
If it were me. I would just drop grenades on the F*****
So in your opinion it probably wasn’t chemical......fair enough.
Your thoughts as always are most appreciated.
A grenade/mortar explosion will cause severe internal bleeding and organ damage/failure, most soliders that are in the proximity of an explosion will either die of shrapnel wounds or internal bleeding.
If Ukraine were using chemical weapons (of which there's been no evidence in the war so far and would work against their desire to join NATO), it would involve larger scale attacks. Dropping tiny amounts on a couple of soldiers makes no sense.
I can show you some thermite videos the Russians have been dropping all over cities (that apparently 'voted' to be part of Russia). Thermite burns uncontrollably and will go through your clothing and skin. They're also using thermobaric bombs, that suck all the air out of the area and cause a violent shockwave. Again used against civilian areas. Both are vile weapons that no civilised country should ever use against people they're alledgedly trying to 'save'.
I'm happy to share some neutral accounts reporting on the war, I follow both sides' reporting to try to make sense of what's actually happening. Ukrainian supporters tend to sometimes hide bad news for morale (which makes sense, they're fighting one of the largest armies in the world on their own) and Russians spread lies (like the forced recruitment videos being shared), so it's not easy to know where to look.
FYI I'm a pacifist at heart, I hate the concept of war. As a species we should be past it by now, but there will always been scum like Putin launching genocidal wars of land conquest, which means we're stuck with wasted resources on military equipment and disruptions to the rest of the world.
I suppose you have to accept there is bullsh*t on both sides, as in the old saying "The 1st casualty of war is the truth"...
I know a bit...but nowhere enough.
Chemical weapons are great for taking out individuals, but expensive. Gases are great for taking out masses of people.
Why use an expensive weapon to take out a single soldier.
Secondly Russia has a huge chemical warfare research facility. Ukraine not so sure and unlikely during a war.
I fully accept atrocities are carried out by both sides...I understand both sides killing innocent people and fairly innocent soldiers in retaliation..
This just doesn't really look like a sensible and productive attack
A valid and very well thought out post
My argument, often misconstrued, is not that the Russians are “the good guys”.....absolutely far from it, and as you rightly point out pretty ****ing evil.
I just like to also point out that the Ukrainians are also not the “good guys” that western media like to make them out to be.
when you have a war when literal Nazis and killing other literal Nazis...it all seems so ****ed up.
Dunno if you listen to podcasts but Popular Front podcast is very good and might be to your likening......
I might be wrong but didn’t Ukraine inherit a vast resource of both chemical and biological weaponry research and production when the Soviet broke up ?
Read that somewhere too.....there's just too many variables in that video though to make me think it's a chemical attack, and far more likely to be a doctored or staged video for Russian propoganda purposes.
After tonight’s discussion on here and after having more thought on it, I’m tending to now agree.
Sadly we will never know the truth