Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
About the same as Pakistan and India's dispute over Kashmir. It's so little reported by MSM that I find it hard to be anything but a neutral observer. How about you, Stainsey?
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You seem pretty clued up on the Ukraine-Russia conflict....what's your thoughts on Putin drafting in neo-Nazis to fight for him in his "de-Nazification" of Ukraine, whilst the neo-Nazis in Ukraine join forces with other fighters. I hear that Azov are now so popular in Ukraine after their battle at Mariupol that they'll almost be able to walk into government once the conflict is over....

A lot of bad guys fighting each other, I always said there are no good guys in war, just different shades of bad
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
It appears to be a combination of the conclusions reached by the UN inspectors (now banned from Iran) and Mossad investigations
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Mossad ? - that well known ''neutral'' source of information ? Apparently the Israeli PM assured Congress that ''If you take out Saddam, you will see a more stable middle east`` - i wouldn't trust Mossad on anything. The main point of nuclear weapons is deterrence - if you have them then you want the World to know you do - if Iran really had such a thing then they would test it on some mountain top somewhere.
 
colognehornet said:
Mossad ? - that well known ''neutral'' source of information ? Apparently the Israeli PM assured Congress that ''If you take out Saddam, you will see a more stable middle east`` - i wouldn't trust Mossad on anything. The main point of nuclear weapons is deterrence - if you have them then you want the World to know you do - if Iran really had such a thing then they would test it on some mountain top somewhere.
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...and have sanctions against them strengthened to breaking point? I don't believe Iran's theocratic rulers see themselves as the next North Korea, isolated entirely from the rest of the world
 
rangercol said:
Do you support the invasion of Ukraine by Russia?
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Normally I would refuse to be placed into this ''You're either with us or against us'' thing - we heard all that during the Iraq war. But I will answer it and the answer is ''no''. But the same thing applied to the invasion of Iraq and my reaction was the same in both cases. My question to you is - ''Is the Russian invasion any worse than that of Iraq, and if so why ?
 
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Steelmonkey said:
You seem pretty clued up on the Ukraine-Russia conflict....what's your thoughts on Putin drafting in neo-Nazis to fight for him in his "de-Nazification" of Ukraine, whilst the neo-Nazis in Ukraine join forces with other fighters. I hear that Azov are now so popular in Ukraine after their battle at Mariupol that they'll almost be able to walk into government once the conflict is over....

A lot of bad guys fighting each other, I always said there are no good guys in war, just different shades of bad
Click to expand...

I know that in the 2019 Ukraine elections, the far right vote was negligible. So Azov are not the tail that wags the dog, they're a couple of hairs at the end of the tail. But sure, as Ukranian civilians are dying, Azov will gain popularity for killing Russian soldiers.

I'm still waiting for Cologne to tell me how many Russian civilians have been murdered by Ukranians, to compare with the high number of civilian Ukranian casualties.
 
colognehornet said:
Normally I would refuse to be placed into this ''You're either with us or against us'' thing - we heard all that during the Iraq war. But I will answer it and the answer is ''no''. But the same thing applied to the invasion of Iraq and my reaction was the same in both cases. My question to you is - ''Is the Russian invasion any worse than that of Iraq, and if so why ?
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Saddam invaded Kuwait. Who has Ukraine invaded?

Saddam used chemical weapons on civilians.

Saddam boasted of having weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam was a despot, not democratically elected

There's some difference to go on with...
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
I know that in the 2019 Ukraine elections, the far right vote was negligible. So Azov are not the tail that wags the dog, they're a couple of hairs at the end of the tail. But sure, as Ukranian civilians are dying, Azov will gain popularity for killing Russian soldiers.

I'm still waiting for Cologne to tell me how many Russian civilians have been murdered by Ukranians, to compare with the high number of civilian Ukranian casualties.
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Putin has probably murdered more Russians in the last six months than Ukraine, but he's a ****
 
More threats from Putin in response to Germany sending tanks...will be hoping to get the Russian people back on his side using this rhetoric...


Ukraine war: 80 years on, we are facing German tanks again - Putin
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President Putin laid a wreath at the Mamayev Kurgan memorial complex in Volgograd



Vladimir Putin has compared Russia's invasion of Ukraine to the fight against Nazi Germany, in a speech to mark the 80th anniversary of the conclusion of the Battle of Stalingrad.

Citing Germany's decision to send tanks to Ukraine, the Russian president said history was repeating itself.

"It's unbelievable but true," he said. "We are again being threatened by German Leopard tanks."

Germany is one of many countries helping Ukraine defend its territory.

Russia launched its bloody, full-scale invasion almost one year ago, prompting Western countries to send weapons and aid to the government in Kyiv.

Speaking in Volgograd - the modern name for Stalingrad - Mr Putin hinted that he could seek to move beyond conventional weapons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64502504
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
I know that in the 2019 Ukraine elections, the far right vote was negligible. So Azov are not the tail that wags the dog, they're a couple of hairs at the end of the tail. But sure, as Ukranian civilians are dying, Azov will gain popularity for killing Russian soldiers.

I'm still waiting for Cologne to tell me how many Russian civilians have been murdered by Ukranians, to compare with the high number of civilian Ukranian casualties.
Click to expand...
I don't know how many civilians of both sides have been lost in this conflict - the accounts given by both sides have been different. Nor do I know how many ethnic Russian civilians died during the Dombass War. The estimate I have heard from the Iraq war is 200,000 (from American defence sources) which appears to outweigh both - but one is, of course, too many. The fact that Selenskiy wanted to arm the entire civilian population, and very largely did this, rather blurred the difference between civilian and active combatant.
 
colognehornet said:
I don't know how many civilians of both sides have been lost in this conflict - the accounts given by both sides have been different.
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Here's a clue, Cologne. Russia is bombing Ukranian cities with missiles daily. Ukraine is not bombing Russian cities or civilians.

Now I'll leave you to keep scratching your head as to what the implications of that might be...
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Saddam invaded Kuwait. Who has Ukraine invaded?

Saddam used chemical weapons on civilians.

Saddam boasted of having weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam was a despot, not democratically elected

There's some difference to go on with...
Click to expand...
1. Iraq had invaded Kuwait many years before the American invasion by Bush Junior when it was no longer a relevant factor.
2. I know that he used chemical weapons - they were supplied by the USA (at a time when Saddam was their friend) for use against Iran. As long as Iran was their enemy the Americans made a hero of him (pretty much like they're doing with Selenskiy now). Apparently the American viewpoint was that these horrible weapons were ok. to be used against Iran.
3. Saddam didn't have weapons of mass destruction (and if the Americans had really believed he did then they never would have gone in there)
4. Whether he was democratically elected or not is irrelevant - you cannot just invade countries because you believe them to be undemocratic. Besides which the Americans have sponsored (and kept) many undemocratic leaders in power, and also helped to remove democratically elected governments to replace them with Western friendly despots.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Here's a clue, Cologne. Russia is bombing Ukranian cities with missiles daily. Ukraine is not bombing Russian cities or civilians.

Now I'll leave you to keep scratching your head as to what the implications of that might be...
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No scratching of my head here Goldie - the war is taking place in Ukraine and I have never condoned that. Unfortunately there are always civilian casualties in war. If wars do take place then it is the international rule that only military targets are singled out, yet to place this in perspective in the former Yugoslavia when the allies bombed Serbia they managed to bomb appartment buildings, civilian buses, refugee columns, a refugee camp, a prison (in Dubrava), a sanatorium and a retirement home in Surdulica, and, unbelievably the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. The full civilian death toll is still unknown. Cluster bombs were also used extensively in Nis. But the main difference was not the act of this, but rather it was being done by the so called ''goodies''. Unlike the Ukraine, countries like Iraq and Serbia did not have a media master like Selenskiy on their side to make sure we were reminded of the graphic details every day.
 
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