I agree, hence why it should be an independent inquiry and not a civil servant who then hands her findings to Boris Johnson. What a complete farce. Its like getting one of my employees to investigate me and hand me the results.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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Civil Servants aren't part of the government Bob.
They are independent.
I'm pretty sure her findings will be public.
Having read a bit about her similar inquiries that she has run in the past have resulted in a number of ministers getting booted out, including Damian ‘****er’ Green.
Personally the irritation is not with her, but with the cynical use of an ‘inquiry’ (at taxpayers expense) to delay, fudge and confuse and provide an excuse for politicians not to tell the truth. That’s not Gray’s fault, she’s just doing her job, but if people weren’t habitual liars there would be no need for this farce and decisions on personal futures would have been made and we would have moved on to the next fiasco, or perhaps something other than the continual ****ing **** behaviour of elected representatives of all parties.
If we start to make every issue around simply telling the truth the subject of a quasi legal inquiry, we are even more ****ed than I imagined.
I haven’t seen this criticism, but M15 is in an odd position. As far as I can see neither the Chinese lawyer or the odious Gardiner (or any other beneficiary of Chinese gifts) have actually been accused, let alone charged with doing anything illegal. Even though, from my perspective, only a cretin would imagine that these payments were not easily interpreted as a bribe or potential blackmail in return for influence. Just like the oligarchs ‘donations’ to the 34 Tory MPs. You don’t get something for nothing.
I assume that M15 discussed with Gardiner and told him that his association was unwise at best, but that he chose to ignore them and continue the relationship, in which case the very public nature of this reveal was the only course of action left. Again, I assume that they told him that they were going public. The alternatives, that M15 unilaterally decided that it was in the public interest to take this route, without political guidance, or that Patel told them to take this action without any discussion with Gardiner or others implicated, is probably worthy of discussion. Of course the discussion would be both tedious and divisive, as everything is it seems……
Isn’t he a Fulham supporter? Watch out Uber you’ll get accused of guilty by association
Yeah, but you’re a Chelsea fan (apparently)
Just read in the Times that the Gray report will conclude that the parties were ‘not criminal’ some officials will be disciplined and Johnson censured for ‘poor judgement’.
Which I think will just ensure that this incredibly boring debate will just go on, as it calls into question what exactly the rules were at the time of these events, and how many of the 100,000 plus people fined under COVID rules can appeal in the light of new ‘interpretations’.
Of course the Times could be wrong.
Which I think will just ensure that this incredibly boring debate will just go on, as it calls into question what exactly the rules were at the time of these events, and how many of the 100,000 plus people fined under COVID rules can appeal in the light of new ‘interpretations’.
Of course the Times could be wrong.
Agree with most of this.
I believe MI5 had no other option but to make this announcement.
They'd warned Gardener, but this liason continued.
She clearly tried to cast her net far and wide, across the political spectrum. It just landed a catch with the useful idiot Gardener.
It wasn't illegal, so what else could MI5 do after Gardener ignored them?
It's not new. All States do this.
Transparency tends to leave our security services with one hand tied behind their backs. I'm undecided as to whether this is a good or bad thing.
Probably a bit of both.
I don't think it was a political decision.
The drinking culture at No 10 doesn't surprise me. There was no discipline from the top. Anyone who knows anything about Boris Johnson knows detail is his weakness, and he couldn't micromanage an old people's outing. If he'd come clean early on, he'd have been censured, taken a hit in the polls and probably carried on.
But by attending the drinking himself, lying about no parties taking place and then watching as the drip, drip party revelations come out, he's made material mistakes. Ironically, the best thing for Labour would be if he clings on. The best for the Tories is if they can get rid of him in a clean way, and bring in a less flamboyant, safe pair of hands like Sunak. Personally, I have a couple of things to thank Boris for on his way out - ridding Parliament of the paralysis over the People's Brexit vote rubbish, and having the foresight to order vaccines when idiots like Macron were making political and nationalistic claims about Astra Zenica.
I'm hoping the absence of Boris at the moment, is his equivalent of 40 days in the desert, while he thinks about his future. A clean broom is needed.
But by attending the drinking himself, lying about no parties taking place and then watching as the drip, drip party revelations come out, he's made material mistakes. Ironically, the best thing for Labour would be if he clings on. The best for the Tories is if they can get rid of him in a clean way, and bring in a less flamboyant, safe pair of hands like Sunak. Personally, I have a couple of things to thank Boris for on his way out - ridding Parliament of the paralysis over the People's Brexit vote rubbish, and having the foresight to order vaccines when idiots like Macron were making political and nationalistic claims about Astra Zenica.
I'm hoping the absence of Boris at the moment, is his equivalent of 40 days in the desert, while he thinks about his future. A clean broom is needed.
Did the Tories take £700k from her, Bob? Answer - no.
Gardiner's an awful hypocrite and it amuses me that Labour supporters are now excusing it by saying he was Corbynite so no relevance for the Party. Before Corbyn, Labour supporters were pointing at Blair's people and saying they had no relevance either!
Spot on.
Starmer would love Boris to remain.
That new broom needs to make a very large sweep of the present cabinet.
Would an incoming replacement risk making that many enemies.
I suspect the legacy of what Boris has presided over will set the Tories back a long, long way, even taking into account the pluses you point out from his tenure.
I have just had the privilege of watching Emily Thornberry. Oh my god what a thick b#tch!
Firstly she is quick to moan about Boris (which is okay) but then she played the Queen card. “Oh how could they, our Queen”. This is from the same leftie with her chums that have never liked the royals!
Then asked about Gardiner and she mentions Cameron and May nothing about Jezza or Labour people this woman was pictured with? As for the money going to Labour… she was quick to deny that.
We can never let these freaks get into power.
Firstly she is quick to moan about Boris (which is okay) but then she played the Queen card. “Oh how could they, our Queen”. This is from the same leftie with her chums that have never liked the royals!
Then asked about Gardiner and she mentions Cameron and May nothing about Jezza or Labour people this woman was pictured with? As for the money going to Labour… she was quick to deny that.
We can never let these freaks get into power.
You and your chums that liked this need to remember that she only had access to these people because she paid lots of money to a high ranking Labour minister. idiots
Sue Gray is in the Cabinet Office. The role of the Cabinet Office is to support the government of the day. She is categorically not independent.
It will be interesting to see about the damaging legacy point. The alternative argument is that Boris is such a big figure, so unorthodox, that he takes his sins with him. I agree about the sweep of the present cabinet, which is why Sunak and Truss are distancing themselves right now, and being called prancing ponies by Johnson supporters. Theirs is a fine line to tread, between continued association with Partygate, and looking disloyal and too ambitious which is fatal among the Tory faithful.
Posting pictures of this woman with Cameron and May… only reason she got access was through a Labour minister who got £500k and other money given to the party. All roads lead to Labour
Cameron was courting China at one point, but that was at an early stage. The dark, genocidally dark, side of Xi's regime has become clear since then, but that didn't stop old Barry taking huge amounts of cash and discussing UK policy with Xi's hench people
All i asked was it the same woman? Goldy
Im not defending Gardiner in any way at all. He deserves everything that may come to him. Everyone is different mate as we find out on here. Some choose to defend or deflect on certain subjects, others aknowledge them for what they are.
I love all the Boris bashers now attacking Sue Gray. I listened to someone last night who was saying how impartial she will be. She goes strictly by the rules and doesn’t care who you are, if you broke a rule she will come down on them.
Funny how all these people are experts on a women they had never heard of five minutes ago.
Funny how all these people are experts on a women they had never heard of five minutes ago.
Leaked files appear to suggest the Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband, Douglas Barrowman, were secretly involved in a PPE business that was awarded more than £200m in government contracts after she referred it to the Cabinet Office.
Blimey thats a hefty contract
Blimey thats a hefty contract