Off Topic The Politics Thread

[BobbyD]

That's like saying an armed robber apprehended by police as he holds up a bank didn't have a chance to steal anything

Actually probably more like the robber is about to go to the bank, sees the police then decides not to rob it and going forward chooses never to rob again and redeems himself by doing charity work

unlike boris who has chosen to rob the bank a few times and then become police commissioner

 

[sb_73]

Boris is proving to be a quite useless PM when it comes to the details of running the Country, which is obviously his main job.
He was probably the right "cheer leader" during the early days of the pandemic but he's now becoming a liability.
He'll always be good at "pep talks", standing up to the EU etc, but he really needs to go asap.
There are some Tories in the government who would do a much better job (not difficult) imo.
However, long term, I would definitely be prepared to give a centre left party a chance in the future. Trouble is, I would never vote for Starmer, as I don't like or rate him and I couldn't vote for the Labour party in it's present form.
We need a credible opposition and imo I don't think there is one.
If there was an election in the coming months I genuinely don't think I could vote for any of the main parties.
Politics and politicians are at an all time low imo and have been for quite some time. Not just here, but in many other countries too.
Not sure what the answer is either, as just hating Tories cos they're Tories or left wingers cos they're left wingers etc etc gets us nowhere and leads to more and more division. They all have their faults, but surely it's time (I've been as guilty as anyone at not doing this) to try to recognise and acknowledge other people's opinions, no matter how different to your own, instead of just cancelling them and their views because they're not your views and if they're different to yours they simply MUST be wrong?

If you get a chance click the link to the article I posted at [HASHTAG]#68058[/HASHTAG] Col.

For the record I think the story, from the archetypal ‘liberal’ US publication The Atlantic uses too many right wing illustrations of collective narcissism for my liking, the thinking applies to lots of groups - including quite ‘liberal’ ones. But it’s an interesting take on this ‘We are right so the rest of you are evil’ position.

I can’t see myself ever voting at national level again. The relatively few times I have in the past I’ve regretted it pretty sharply.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Actually probably more like the robber is about to go to the bank, sees the police then decides not to rob it and going forward chooses never to rob again and redeems himself by doing charity work

Nice try, Bobby. Except that (a) Starmer was prevented from continuing with his consultancy contract when third parties pointed out he had a conflict of interest, and (b) the reason Starmer decided against pursing such contracts later was because he had party leadership ambitions, and then became leader.

So you can shelve the violins and the charity work!

 

[rangercol]

If you get a chance click the link to the article I posted at [HASHTAG]#68058[/HASHTAG] Col.

For the record I think the story, from the archetypal ‘liberal’ US publication The Atlantic uses too many right wing illustrations of collective narcissism for my liking, the thinking applies to lots of groups - including quite ‘liberal’ ones. But it’s an interesting take on this ‘We are right so the rest of you are evil’ position.

I can’t see myself ever voting at national level again. The relatively few times I have in the past I’ve regretted it pretty sharply.

Will do.
The "we are right so the rest of you are evil" position is ripping us apart imo and will lead to more and more attacks on public figures etc.
It must change.

 

[BobbyD]

Nice try, Bobby. Except that (a) Starmer was prevented from continuing with his consultancy contract when third parties pointed out he had a conflict of interest, and (b) the reason Starmer decided against pursing such contracts later was because he had party leadership ambitions, and then became leader.

So you can shelve the violins and the charity work!

we know what he is, we know what he is

 

[Stroller]

Not sure what the answer is either, as just hating Tories cos they're Tories or left wingers cos they're left wingers etc etc gets us nowhere and leads to more and more division. They all have their faults, but surely it's time (I've been as guilty as anyone at not doing this) to try to recognise and acknowledge other people's opinions, no matter how different to your own, instead of just cancelling them and their views because they're not your views and if they're different to yours they simply MUST be wrong?

You taking me off ignore now then, Col?

The polarisation in this country didn't start with Brexit, but Brexit took it to extremes and there's no sign of anyone admitting that they were wrong on the issue or changing their views, despite the fact that it's been an even greater disaster than 'Project Fear' predicted.

But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You going to have to explain why, pal. As much as I'm impressed with your intellect, I'm not going to accept your simple assurance

Because Starmer ducked out of a gig where he has a proven expertise when a conflict of interest arose. To try and conflate that with the likes of Paterson who blatantly abused his position is poor, IMO.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Boris is proving to be a quite useless PM when it comes to the details of running the Country, which is obviously his main job.
He was probably the right "cheer leader" during the early days of the pandemic but he's now becoming a liability.
He'll always be good at "pep talks", standing up to the EU etc, but he really needs to go asap.
There are some Tories in the government who would do a much better job (not difficult) imo.
However, long term, I would definitely be prepared to give a centre left party a chance in the future. Trouble is, I would never vote for Starmer, as I don't like or rate him and I couldn't vote for the Labour party in it's present form.
We need a credible opposition and imo I don't think there is one.
If there was an election in the coming months I genuinely don't think I could vote for any of the main parties.
Politics and politicians are at an all time low imo and have been for quite some time. Not just here, but in many other countries too.
Not sure what the answer is either, as just hating Tories cos they're Tories or left wingers cos they're left wingers etc etc gets us nowhere and leads to more and more division. They all have their faults, but surely it's time (I've been as guilty as anyone at not doing this) to try to recognise and acknowledge other people's opinions, no matter how different to your own, instead of just cancelling them and their views because they're not your views and if they're different to yours they simply MUST be wrong?

A Shy Tory Party for those who know this Conservative Party are ****ing terrible people but will always find some random reason to dislike the current Labour Party a little bit more could probably be a real force.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Because Starmer ducked out of a gig where he has a proven expertise when a conflict of interest arose. To try and conflate that with the likes of Paterson who blatantly abused his position is poor, IMO.

I've never related it to Paterson. It was a reference to a post where MP's consultancy contracts were listed, most of whom were Tory, and the Lib Dem leader.

Are you saying that you approve of consultancy contracts where an MP has proven expertise? Would you have approved of Starmer taking the Mischon de Reya role?

 

[bobmid]

Boris is proving to be a quite useless PM when it comes to the details of running the Country, which is obviously his main job.
He was probably the right "cheer leader" during the early days of the pandemic but he's now becoming a liability.
He'll always be good at "pep talks", standing up to the EU etc, but he really needs to go asap.
There are some Tories in the government who would do a much better job (not difficult) imo.
However, long term, I would definitely be prepared to give a centre left party a chance in the future. Trouble is, I would never vote for Starmer, as I don't like or rate him and I couldn't vote for the Labour party in it's present form.
We need a credible opposition and imo I don't think there is one.
If there was an election in the coming months I genuinely don't think I could vote for any of the main parties.
Politics and politicians are at an all time low imo and have been for quite some time. Not just here, but in many other countries too.
Not sure what the answer is either, as just hating Tories cos they're Tories or left wingers cos they're left wingers etc etc gets us nowhere and leads to more and more division. They all have their faults, but surely it's time (I've been as guilty as anyone at not doing this) to try to recognise and acknowledge other people's opinions, no matter how different to your own, instead of just cancelling them and their views because they're not your views and if they're different to yours they simply MUST be wrong?

Im in a similar boat Col, cant see who i could/would vote for. All i do know is that enough is enough with this current lot. They have dragged us into gutter politics. There must be some tories who can actually take the job as PM seriously. Unfortunately most were replaced for nodding yes people.

 

[bobmid]

That's like saying an armed robber apprehended by police as he holds up a bank didn't have a chance to steal anything

WTF? Your analogys are becoming rather bizarre Goldy

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

WTF? Your analogys are becoming rather bizarre Goldy

Explain why, Bob

 

[bobmid]

Nice try, Bobby. Except that (a) Starmer was prevented from continuing with his consultancy contract when third parties pointed out he had a conflict of interest, and (b) the reason Starmer decided against pursing such contracts later was because he had party leadership ambitions, and then became leader.

So you can shelve the violins and the charity work!

What annoys you more mate, someone found to have broken the rules and then an attempted cover up or someone who didnt break the rules after being warned of the potential rule breaking?

 

[bobmid]

Explain why, Bob

Its quite simple, the robber comitted a crime. This politician you talk of (starmer i think) didnt.

 

[bobmid]

What you should have said Goldy was its like a bank robber planning a heist but being told it was illegal and wrong to do so. He decides to then not rob the bank.
Thats better hey

 

[Stroller]

If you get a chance click the link to the article I posted at [HASHTAG]#68058[/HASHTAG] Col.

For the record I think the story, from the archetypal ‘liberal’ US publication The Atlantic uses too many right wing illustrations of collective narcissism for my liking, the thinking applies to lots of groups - including quite ‘liberal’ ones. But it’s an interesting take on this ‘We are right so the rest of you are evil’ position.

I can’t see myself ever voting at national level again. The relatively few times I have in the past I’ve regretted it pretty sharply.

I have always voted at every opportunity and will continue to do so. The system is far from perfect but I don't get the, 'none of what's on offer represents what I want to see, therefore I'm not going to bother' attitude. Surely it's better to vote for whatever candidate or party comes closest to representing your views?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I've never related it to Paterson. It was a reference to a post where MP's consultancy contracts were listed, most of whom were Tory, and the Lib Dem leader.

Are you saying that you approve of consultancy contracts where an MP has proven expertise? Would you have approved of Starmer taking the Mischon de Reya role?

If it doesn’t create a conflict of interest and it’s being done outside of their day job hours, whatever those are, go for it.

A ban on second jobs entirely is a sledgehammer to crack a nut IMO and deflects away from the real issue of Tories lining each others’ pockets at our expense.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

What annoys you more mate, someone found to have broken the rules and then an attempted cover up or someone who didnt break the rules after being warned of the potential rule breaking?

First, Starmer wasn't warned of the conflict of interest. He's a lawyer - if he doesn't understand a conflict, no one does. He was shamed into dropping the consultancy work when a light was shone it by the Tories. So he gets no praise here. He was caught.

Second, I assume you're referring to Paterson on the attempted cover up. He didn't. The standards committee found he had breached the rules, but he didn't try to cover this up. His argument was that what he did was not a breach of the rules.

 

[bobmid]

First, Starmer wasn't warned of the conflict of interest. He's a lawyer - if he doesn't understand a conflict, no one does. He was shamed into dropping the consultancy work when a light was shone it by the Tories. So he gets no praise here. He was caught.

Second, I assume you're referring to Paterson on the attempted cover up. He didn't. The standards committee found he had breached the rules, but he didn't try to cover this up. His argument was that what he did was not a breach of the rules.

So we are agreed, Starmer didnt do anything. Paterson did and the Tory party attempted to cover it up. Sorted.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

If it doesn’t create a conflict of interest and it’s being done outside of their day job hours, whatever those are, go for it.

A ban on second jobs entirely is a sledgehammer to crack a nut IMO and deflects away from the real issue of Tories lining each others’ pockets at our expense.

Ok, that's clear. You have no problem with MP's having second jobs, and have no issue with the list of (mostly) Tories with such contracts, posted by Strolls at [HASHTAG]#68015[/HASHTAG].