Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Quite Possibly Raving]

As much as I want to I can't really disagree with any of that to be fair.

Ditto. On the other hand, though, I have no idea how Labour could win at the moment. Trying to win back their core 'working class' vote in the red wall, retain the much younger and more liberal urban voters where they retained seats in places like London, and winning some votes from centrists who voted Johnson through gritted teeth seems an impossible task. I don't know how they can square that circle?

Read an interesting blog earlier this month on one controversial option, which would be to push even further towards the liberal younger vote - with one pollster looking at 41 'blue wall' seats like Wimbledon (and even Uxbridge) that Labour could target as part of this strategy.
https://strongmessagehere.substack.com/p/the-blue-wall

Whatever the best strategy, it isn't clear that Labour has one at the moment, but they would fairly point out that we're still a little way out.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You can’t really say the system doesn’t have a huge impact when left of centre parties, if we include the Lib Dems in that definition, get comfortably half the vote and nowhere near half the seats. Presumably quite a lot of fair-minded people are therefore not voting Tory.

I won’t call it the gammon vote. Let’s call it the ‘likes Johnson cos he tells it how it is, 50+ white bloke’ vote. The ‘likes Johnson cos he tells it how it is, 50+ white bloke’ vote is hugely significant in many swing seats. I’d rather it wasn’t.

 

[Stroller]

Ditto. On the other hand, though, I have no idea how Labour could win at the moment. Trying to win back their core 'working class' vote in the red wall, the much younger and more liberal urban voters where they retained seats in places like London, and winning some votes from centrists who voted Johnson through gritted teeth seems an impossible task. I don't know how they can square that circle?

Read an interesting blog earlier this month on one controversial option, which would be to push even further towards the liberal younger vote - with one pollster looking at 41 'blue wall' seats like Wimbledon (and even Uxbridge) that Labour could target as part of this strategy.
https://strongmessagehere.substack.com/p/the-blue-wall

Whatever the best strategy, it isn't clear that Labour has one at the moment, but they would fairly point out that we're still a little way out.

I think this is definitely the way to go for Labour, at least in the short term. Brexit mindsets will take some time to fade.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

I think this is definitely the way to go for Labour, at least in the short term. Brexit mindsets will take some time to fade.

Who knows. Really didn't work for them in 2019. Mind you, May went for the red wall in '17 - good strategy but failed to deliver. Boris delivered the same strategy. Maybe trying the blue wall again will have different results.

 

[ELLERS]

I think this is definitely the way to go for Labour, at least in the short term. Brexit mindsets will take some time to fade.

The Brexit mindset will only go away once people accept it and move on. You have Lord Adonis and Co trying to flog a dead horse. The BBC can't let it go and always find some story to connect to Brexit and use in the Brexit cast show. The Independent and Guardian run daily stories on Brexit only showing the negative stuff. These people/organisations are stopping any healing process.

There are many people around the country who voted Brexit for a different reason to me. Rather than think like some, that they are uneducated/thick racist UKIP supporters. Labour should ask why... especially when there was something like 120 Labour leave seats.
Not everyone who voted Brexit was some white 50+ Tory.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

The future looks terrifying to me because of the absence of any politicians who can actually argue their case as opposed to merely learning by heart the lines fed to them by their spin doctors.. One day there will be a real threat of imminent war or to the immediate security of the country. At that time I don't want a leader who is going to look like a rabbit caught in the headlights or who looks to his party gurus to work out what s/he should do. Is there someone out there who fits that bill? Only serious answers please. I'm not in the mood to listen to joke candidates like Pritti vacant Patel, Dominic Raab, Gavin Williamson, Jonathan Ashworth or David Lammy

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The future looks terrifying to me because of the absence of any politicians who can actually argue their case as opposed to merely learning by heart the lines fed to them by their spin doctors.. One day there will be a real threat of imminent war or to the immediate security of the country. At that time I don't want a leader who is going to look like a rabbit caught in the headlights or who looks to his party gurus to work out what s/he should do. Is there someone out there who fits that bill? Only serious answers please. I'm not in the mood to listen to joke candidates like Pritti vacant Patel, Dominic Raab, Gavin Williamson, Jonathan Ashworth or David Lammy

Rishi Sunak looks the best bet at present imo. That'd confound the Twitter race baiters, although of course, presumably he's the wrong sort of BAME for them

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The Brexit mindset will only go away once people accept it and move on. You have Lord Adonis and Co trying to flog a dead horse. The BBC can't let it go and always find some story to connect to Brexit and use in the Brexit cast show. The Independent and Guardian run daily stories on Brexit only showing the negative stuff. These people/organisations are stopping any healing process.

There are many people around the country who voted Brexit for a different reason to me. Rather than think like some, that they are uneducated/thick racist UKIP supporters. Labour should ask why... especially when there was something like 120 Labour leave seats.
Not everyone who voted Brexit was some white 50+ Tory.

You’ve really got a chip on your shoulder about uneducated old white blokes today. That must be half a dozen long waffly posts about it.

 

[ELLERS]

Rishi Sunak looks the best bet at present imo. That'd confound the Twitter race baiters, although of course, presumably he's the wrong sort of BAME for them

I like Richi and he is definitely one for the future. He is highly respected within the party.

 

[bobmid]

Unless you follow politics, generally people don't give a flying **** and wouldn't be able to name 10 current politicians. A lot of my pals and myself are working class people from a little markert town in West yorkshire. Couldn't even tell you who the local Tory Councillor is, never seen or heard from him/her. The majority of these friends voted Conservative. I'm not sure many could explain why but a few will openly tell you it was to stop more immigration. That's their perogative. Will they vote Tory again, course they will, mostly these are tradesmen and have never been so busy. Some have built up big businesses under a Tory watch. That's all they are bothered about, they might give a **** about wallpaper and dodgy contracts to donors, but for all of 10 seconds. They don't talk politics, they aren't interested but they vote. That's why I believe Labour will never be in power again in my lifetime. Right over wrong is a luxury some people ignore when it will never effect them.

 

[ELLERS]

You’ve really got a chip on your shoulder about uneducated old white blokes today. That must be half a dozen long waffly posts about it.

No Chip mate. you're okay as you would never say things like that about voters.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

No Chip mate. you're okay as you would never say things like that about voters.

Of course not. I have the utmost respect for every illogical working class Brexit/Tory point of view.

@NorwayRanger give us back our fish.

 

[ELLERS]

Unless you follow politics, generally people don't give a flying **** and wouldn't be able to name 10 current politicians. A lot of my pals and myself are working class people from a little markert town in West yorkshire. Couldn't even tell you who the local Tory Councillor is, never seen or heard from him/her. The majority of these friends voted Conservative. I'm not sure many could explain why but a few will openly tell you it was to stop more immigration. That's their perogative. Will they vote Tory again, course they will, mostly these are tradesmen and have never been so busy. Some have built up big businesses under a Tory watch. That's all they are bothered about, they might give a **** about wallpaper and dodgy contracts to donors, but for all of 10 seconds. They don't talk politics, they aren't interested but they vote. That's why I believe Labour will never be in power again in my lifetime. Right over wrong is a luxury some people ignore when it will never effect them.

I have similar mate who voted for Brexit and his views and mine were miles apart. I won't knock him because it's his vote. Thats life. People vote for different parties and do any of them really stand by their manifesto? Sometimes things change or they go in a different direction... that doesn't help the voter who feels betrayed.

 

[BobbyD]

Part of Corbyn's problem was he wanted to send wealth overseas, including to his chums in Hamas, rather than focus on traditional Labour voters in the North.

Boris isn't that wealthy. He had an estimated wealth of £4m (compare with Gareth Bales £22 million per year) and this was before an expensive divorce with Marina to provide for her and their four children.

bit late to the party but goldie, if 4m isnt part of the "elite" then Corbyns estimated "3m" certainly puts him as a beggar

 

[kiwiqpr]

probably needed it for his paper round

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MetTaskforce
@MetTaskforce


We are out and about patrolling
@MPSHackney
and
@MPSTowerHam
tonight. [HASHTAG]#U34[/HASHTAG] Officers have detained a 15 year old male on a pedal cycle, after a chase, and found this concealed in his waistband.
Currently on his way to custody.[HASHTAG]#stopandsearch[/HASHTAG][HASHTAG]#stopandsearchworks[/HASHTAG][HASHTAG]#knifecrime[/HASHTAG] ^U341

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6

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

bit late to the party but goldie, if 4m isnt part of the "elite" then Corbyns estimated "3m" certainly puts him as a beggar

It was £4m before Boris's expensive divorce, Bobby. Marina will have taken more than half that.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

probably needed it for his paper round

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MetTaskforce
@MetTaskforce


We are out and about patrolling
@MPSHackney
and
@MPSTowerHam
tonight. [HASHTAG]#U34[/HASHTAG] Officers have detained a 15 year old male on a pedal cycle, after a chase, and found this concealed in his waistband.
Currently on his way to custody.[HASHTAG]#stopandsearch[/HASHTAG][HASHTAG]#stopandsearchworks[/HASHTAG][HASHTAG]#knifecrime[/HASHTAG] ^U341

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6

You mean this poor lad was stopped and searched? David Lammy will be outraged at this racially motivated act of police disrespect .

 

[BobbyD]

It was £4m before Boris's expensive divorce, Bobby. Marina will have taken more than half that.

Yeah but don't forget the backhanders he'll be getting from T&T goldie .

So, i have a question, at what wealth level do we start considering someone part of the elite? Presumable a mininimum of 3m as you refer to Corbyn as the elite?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Yeah but don't forget the backhanders he'll be getting from T&T goldie .

So, i have a question, at what wealth level do we start considering someone part of the elite? Presumable a mininimum of 3m as you refer to Corbyn as the elite?

It doesn't have to be just money. It can include family, upbringing, school, connections, nepotism, inheritance etc imo

 

[BobbyD]

It doesn't have to be just money. It can include family, upbringing, school, connections, nepotism, inheritance etc imo

That's good i asked then, as Eton raised Johnson is less elite than Gareth Bale was the argument i was hearing because he earns way more

p.s. i agree with you on those points