Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Yes, it is politics the SNP are playing. The arguments the Scottish Fishing Industry are putting forward to say they've done badly look complicated, involving the right to lease and the benefits of annual negotiations. But the fact is, surely, after the five year transition period, all UK fisherfolk will benefit when EU quotas are reduced in UK waters. So the Scots are complaining about the transition period only, and particularly 2021. Seems a bit shortsighted

More importantly they want to leave the union only to hand more fish quotas over to the EU? Which goes against being independent as they leave us only to be controlled by the EU mafia? Makes sense.

I must say Mr Independence is really acting out the poor Scottish fishermen line.

 

[ELLERS]

Starmer doesn't have much choice but to back the deal, or face no deal. But at least he's doing it. The SNP bloke, Blackford, is simply on a mission, making a nuisance of himself until the Tories have had enough and give him his second referendum

If Scotland want to leave then so be it. What would be funny is if they lose a referendum. That would finish off the SNP or at least Mr Independence.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

More importantly they want to leave the union only to hand more fish quotas over to the EU? Which goes against being independent as they leave us only to be controlled by the EU mafia? Makes sense.

I must say Mr Independence is really acting out the poor Scottish fishermen line.

I'm far from certain the EU would take Scotland on. It would take EU funds and Madrid might veto anyway

 

[Steelmonkey]

Yes, it is politics the SNP are playing. The arguments the Scottish Fishing Industry are putting forward to say they've done badly look complicated, involving the right to lease and the benefits of annual negotiations. But the fact is, surely, after the five year transition period, all UK fisherfolk will benefit when EU quotas are reduced in UK waters. So the Scots are complaining about the transition period only, and particularly 2021. Seems a bit shortsighted

Well the fishermen got what they voted for, as they were heavily in favour of Brexit. You reap what you sow - I think "get over it" is the phrase used on here!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Well the fishermen got what they voted for, as they were heavily in favour of Brexit. You reap what you sow - I think "get over it" is the phrase used on here!

True, but in five years time, they will be better off

 

[Steelmonkey]

I'm far from certain the EU would take Scotland on. It would take EU funds and Madrid might veto anyway

I'm sure I read somewhere that the EU would sanction a return to the fold if the SNP did win a referendum - but that would be the easy part. Negotiating a deal to leave the UK would make Brexit look like a stroll in the park.

For me, I think all the regions of the UK should be given more autonomy over how they govern their individual authority areas instead of being centrally ruled from Westminster. During the last IndyRef, there were plans to introduce a third option, DevoMax or Devo++, which would have given Holyrood more powers but kept them in the UK - it was by far the most popular option as it kept the union together whilst giving Scotland some form of self-governance - but either SNP or Westminster decided against it, both knowing it would have won - I certainly would've voted for it.

 

[ELLERS]

I'm far from certain the EU would take Scotland on. It would take EU funds and Madrid might veto anyway

What the EU doesn't need is another struggling country to bail out every five minutes. Saying that they will have some extra fish. Peter Bottomley has just had a fab speech and in it ripped a new one into Mr Independence.

 

[rangercol]

Well the fishermen got what they voted for, as they were heavily in favour of Brexit. You reap what you sow - I think "get over it" is the phrase used on here!

They'll be better off in the long run.
It was impossible to get a deal that would give them everything from the get go.
Compromise won the day imo and thank ****, as we have enough to deal with with covid without no deal.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the EU would sanction a return to the fold if the SNP did win a referendum - but that would be the easy part. Negotiating a deal to leave the UK would make Brexit look like a stroll in the park.

For me, I think all the regions of the UK should be given more autonomy over how they govern their individual authority areas instead of being centrally ruled from Westminster. During the last IndyRef, there were plans to introduce a third option, DevoMax or Devo++, which would have given Holyrood more powers but kept them in the UK - it was by far the most popular option as it kept the union together whilst giving Scotland some form of self-governance - but either SNP or Westminster decided against it, both knowing it would have won - I certainly would've voted for it.

You're right about Spain. They've said they won't veto Scotland's entry into the EU so long as Scottish Independence is achieved according to Westminster's rules. So Indyref2 would have to be done under the auspices of the UK government and the UK government would have to be happy with subsequent Independence agreement. As you say, it could be incredibly difficult separating Scotland off after 300 odd years of union

 

[ELLERS]

You're right about Spain. They've said they won't veto Scotland's entry into the EU so long as Scottish Independence is achieved according to Westminster's rules. So Indyref2 would have to be done under the auspices of the UK government and the UK government would have to be happy with subsequent Independence agreement. As you say, it could be incredibly difficult separating Scotland off after 300 odd years of union

I think we can all agree that Blackford is playing politics and he doesn't represent all the views of the Scottish people.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I think we can all agree that Blackford is playing politics and he doesn't represent all the views of the Scottish people.

The irony might be that if Sturgeon and Co win Indyref 2, they would immediately find themselves on the backfoot in the subsequent UK-exit negotiations, aware that if Scotland leaves without agreement from London, the Spanish would veto their access to the EU on the grounds that they'd be worried about a UDI from Catalonia. Boris could have Nicola over a barrel

Sorry for that image

 

[Steelmonkey]

Sorry for that image

Boris, or Nicola....

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Boris, or Nicola....

Both!

 

[Steelmonkey]

They'll be better off in the long run.
It was impossible to get a deal that would give them everything from the get go.
Compromise won the day imo and thank ****, as we have enough to deal with with covid without no deal.

I'd imagine they are worried about still being in business in five years, hence the short term worries?

I'm no fan of Brexit, but the deal is what it is, and all the moaning both sides on here do won't make a jot of difference. I'm glad there's going to be no tarrifs on goods as my industry can get back on track - hopefully a busy few years ahead ripping Huawei out of our networks (although I'm hearing their replacements, Ericsson and Nokia, are nowhere near as good at the moment). The deal is probably as good as the EU would give us, but don't be fooled that it's as good as what we had before - ask your friends in the service sector etc....

Time to move on and rollout the vaccine!

 

[ELLERS]

. I'm glad there's going to be no tarrifs on goods

mmm hold that thought for a bit.

 

[Steelmonkey]

mmm hold that thought for a bit.

Explain - thought that was the great breakthrough?

What the deal says

• There will be no taxes on goods (tariffs) or limits on the amount that can be traded (quotas) between the UK and the EU from 1 January
• Some new checks will be introduced at borders, such as safety checks and customs declarations.
• There are some new restrictions on certain UK animal food products. For example, uncooked meats like sausages and burgers can't enter the EU unless they are frozen to -18C.

 

[ELLERS]

Explain - thought that was the great breakthrough?

What the deal says

• There will be no taxes on goods (tariffs) or limits on the amount that can be traded (quotas) between the UK and the EU from 1 January
• Some new checks will be introduced at borders, such as safety checks and customs declarations.
• There are some new restrictions on certain UK animal food products. For example, uncooked meats like sausages and burgers can't enter the EU unless they are frozen to -18C.

mmm however there will be plenty of paperwork ( just what the French love) on everything going into the EU. There is also a clause basically saying that they the EU will only accept Certain goods that have main parts made in either U.K. or EU... I guess that meant if we were selling a car to the EU most of the bits must come from either country rather than say Japan.
However saying all this, it is a bare bones deal and the future agreements would need to be sorted.

 

[peter1954qpr]

The irony might be that if Sturgeon and Co win Indyref 2, they would immediately find themselves on the backfoot in the subsequent UK-exit negotiations, aware that if Scotland leaves without agreement from London, the Spanish would veto their access to the EU on the grounds that they'd be worried about a UDI from Catalonia. Boris could have thatNicola over a barrel

Sorry for that image

In the unlikely event that Scotland leave the union will we be able to put the bloody wall back up to keep the sweatys out of England

 

[bobmid]

In the unlikely event that Scotland leave the union will we be able to put the bloody wall back up to keep the sweatys out of England

That would be progress

 

[rangercol]

In the unlikely event that Scotland leave the union will we be able to put the bloody wall back up to keep the sweatys out of England

Lol