Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Goldhawk-Road said:
I'm not talking about responsibility. I'm talking about intelligence, the genetic side anyway. Watford has it that much of the UK electorate is thick as mince ie low intelligence. And he held out Germany as being of greater sophistication. Yet many of their grand or great grandparents voted in Hitler. The UK electorate rejected Mosley. So I'm saying the UK electorate has greater genetic intelligence than Watford gives credit for.
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Are these people who voted for Hitler still voting today? I'm going to go for a no so that means absolutely nothing. I'd like to see evidence that genetics has anything to do with intelligence. I'd suggest that education, opportunity and other life factors such as poverty (which directly links into education) bare a lot more to do with intelligence. You also have to take into account media and other influence, but I wouldn't go as far as to say the Germans don't have their fair share of thick as mince people like everyone else.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
There were unforgivable atrocities committed by the British (as there were by other Empire builders at the time) but over the whole duration of the British Empire, it doesn't come even slightly close to what the Nazis did in a short time
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I think what the Germans and their allies did was a systematic massacre of people of a certain race.....whereas the British Empire (along with other empires at the time) didn’t go out to massacre any race, but instead exploited any situation they came across and profited from it....all the while not giving a **** how many died.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
They should not. You've missed the point, Will.
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Ok so are you suggesting that not only genetics have a factor in intelligence, and not only that that the genetic make-up of Germans is inferior to that of the Brits? That is quite some claim, I'd be amazed to see a genetic study to back that up.

Like I've suggested I would think education, opportunity, poverty and other factors such as influence are massive factors. I'd think that poverty was quite a factor back then and when a public figure is telling you that it's someone else to blame and if it wasn't for them your life would be better might seem quite appealing, hence why rightly or wrongly parallels are being drawn with the UK today and the hatred by some people (and no, just no I'm not saying all Brexit voters) of foreigners and more specifically immigrants.
 
Staines R's said:
Why should I be ashamed at what our ancestors have done ? How far does this shame go back ? Should the Italians be ashamed for what they did in Abyssinia ? The French for what they did in Spain ? The Turks for what their ancestors did throughout Europe.....The English for the Crusades ?
Where does a nations shame end ?
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I am not responsible for anything that happened before I was born
I have no reason to apologize for anything my father did
let alone anything his father did
or his fathers father
 
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Staines R's said:
Sorry to be pedantic Goldie but Nazi Germany had quite a bit of help from local Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles etc to help murder their Jewish populations.
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Not really the Poles. No occupied nation collaborated less than the Poles, or paid a higher price for their resistance.

The extent of Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis was shocking; in large part because Ukraine had suffered through two man made famines under the Soviets.
 
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Archers Road said:
Not really the Poles. No occupied nation collaborated less than the Poles, or paid a higher price for their resistance.

The extent of Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis was shocking; in large part because Ukraine had suffered through two man made famines under the Soviets.
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I agree that it’s difficult to compare the murder and persecution of Jews in Poland to places like Ukraine, Latvia and Croatia (Where it was far more organised). However to say that no pograms and collaboration took place before, during and after the Nazi occupation is in fact wrong. (Not saying you were inferring that btw).
I will add that my comments are in no way meant to infer that the Polish nation as a whole set out to destroy their Jewish population...however the fact of the matter is, there were many individual attacks and pogroms that occurred against the Polish/Jewish population during that whole period.....and the sad fact is that it was local Poles who carried out these attacks.
 
Sadly antisemitism was pretty rife amongst many demographics, and indeed for many was seen as acceptable across parts of Europe and Russia in the early 20th century..
The early rise of the nazis in the 1920's exploited this prejudice, and along with broader social and economic promises ( deliberately vague to gather mass appeal ) plus clever use of propoganda, undoubtedly contributed to their rise.
I think what followed was beyond anyones imagination. Horrific and shameful, but that's hindsight for you..
 
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surreyhoop said:
Sadly antisemitism was pretty rife amongst many demographics, and indeed for many was seen as acceptable across parts of Europe and Russia in the early 20th century..
The early rise of the nazis in the 1920's exploited this prejudice, and along with broader social and economic promises ( deliberately vague to gather mass appeal ) plus clever use of propoganda, undoubtedly contributed to their rise.
I think what followed was beyond anyones imagination. Horrific and shameful, but that's hindsight for you..
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Very good post this!!! Nail hit on the head and hammered well and truly home. Please don't anybody suggest for a second that anyone is suggesting for a second that the Tory's or Nige is mounting a world war, but certainly parallels in political tactics and rhetoric's to obtain/continue in power and push through policy
 
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Staines R's said:
Brilliant.......sorry I missed this earlier.
Never heard of it but it’s definitely true :)
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It's great, isn't it. I particularly like this corollary:

"...there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress."
 
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Quite Possibly Raving said:
It's great, isn't it. I particularly like this corollary:

"...there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress."
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That really had me laughing out loud.....it is so true. I reckon I’ve done it myself in a few occasions :)
 
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Staines R's said:
That really had me laughing out loud.....it is so true. I reckon I’ve done it myself in a few occasions :)
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We all do, I suspect. It's always a nice sense check for one's own arguments though. If I have to go to such an extreme to make a point, is the point actually correct, or am I proving others right inadvertently?
 
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