Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

You project rather a lot, my friend, and seem a little over-sensitive regarding criticism of your right-wing compadres.

By the way, the Blair 'creature' was opposed at every turn by Jeremy Corbyn regarding his overseas interventions, whilst being supported by the vast majority of the Tory Party. Go Jezza.

Yeah, I do. I'll tell you why...

I reckon that, by and large, the general difference between those on the right and those on the left is simply that the former tend to better recognise their hypocrisy and the general hypocrisy of human nature, whereas the latter don't. Very simple example is the way a number of Labour MPs seek to deny the masses access to the same quality education that they themselves enjoyed (and obtain for their children).

I think I'm saying that the hatred seems contrary to the preaching of tolerance.

Come a right wing revolution Corbyn would probably be derided. Come a left wing equivalent and the likes of Farage would be strung up in the street.

Not the slightest bit sensitive or over-sensitive... just a little surprised by you guys is all.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Rearrange these words Black Pot Kettle.

Kettle black pot?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It was always the Irish border that was going to be the stumbling block. Ignored by every Leave protagonist because it's too difficult and frustrates the 'will of the people'. The Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty, which can't just be torn up to accommodate No-Dealers.

Matthew Parriss has an interesting theory that PM Johnson (or similar) might be the only way that A50 revocation could happen. The theory being that it would take a rabid Brexiter, having fruitlessly tried to renegotiate with the EU, to persuade the ERG loons that Brexit just can't be delivered.

My prediction is that Johnson is anointed as PM, but loses his Uxbridge seat in the inevitable subsequent GE, where Labour become the biggest party in a hung parliament. A second EU referendum is held, which results in a 52:48 Remain victory. Riots ensue, with thousands killed - mostly from strokes and heart attacks.

My go...

It really doesn't matter which useless **** takes over from the departing useless ****. The useless ****s at the EU refuse to change any terms of the existing proposed agreement, so out latest **** tries a few times in vain to get 650 similarly useless ****s to support him (or her, or it). In a fit of pique and/or exasperation the useless **** calls a General Election in which the turnout is less than 20% as voter apathy and contempt for the 650 useless ****s takes hold. Those bothering to vote recognise the importance of democracy and the majority therefore vote for candidates most likely to deliver a Brexit. Turns out to be a 'no deal' Brexit because nobody will budge on anything in the other parties, thereby cutting off the nation's nose to spite its face. After a period of finger-pointing and doom-mongering people wake up to the fact that nobody dies, the sun still comes up in the morning and their **** still smells. The markets have a 'certainty' with which to work, WestWindsor starts to shave and even Uber goes to a home game.

 

[kiwiqpr]

Pot black kettle

 

[Stroller]

Yeah, I do. I'll tell you why...

I reckon that, by and large, the general difference between those on the right and those on the left is simply that the former tend to better recognise their hypocrisy and the general hypocrisy of human nature, whereas the latter don't. Very simple example is the way a number of Labour MPs seek to deny the masses access to the same quality education that they themselves enjoyed (and obtain for their children).

I think I'm saying that the hatred seems contrary to the preaching of tolerance.

Come a right wing revolution Corbyn would probably be derided. Come a left wing equivalent and the likes of Farage would be strung up in the street.

Not the slightest bit sensitive or over-sensitive... just a little surprised by you guys is all.

Can you not see the contradiction between the benign derision that you suggest would be afforded your left-wing opponents and the obvious bitter hatred that you have for Mr Blair?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Can you not see the contradiction between the benign derision that you suggest would be afforded your left-wing opponents and the obvious bitter hatred that you have for Mr Blair?

I recognise my hypocrisy.

I don’t hate anybody (apart from one recent exception in my private life).

I dislike Blair, but where have I said I’d do him harm? I think he’s caused far more damage than any recent right-wing hate figure in this country can or will. May, BoJo, Call Me Dave & Facist Farage are the Telly Tubbies in comparison.

Owen Jones is a ****. I’d do that little downy-bollocked ****tard some harm. I’d **** in his satchel for starters.

 

[Stroller]

I recognise my hypocrisy.

I don’t hate anybody (apart from one recent exception in my private life).

I dislike Blair, but where have I said I’d do him harm? I think he’s caused far more damage than any recent right-wing hate figure in this country can or will. May, BoJo, Call Me Dave & Facist Farage are the Telly Tubbies in comparison.

Owen Jones is a ****. I’d do that little downy-bollocked ****tard some harm. I’d **** in his satchel for starters.

Intolerance is not the preserve of the Left then.

 

[cor blymie]

Rearrange these words Black Pot Kettle.

it's all Nigels fault?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I’m backing Esther McVey to be the next PM for no reason other than she’s the only one I’d like to bend over a billiard table.

 

[QPR Oslo]

OK so she is moving on. Just saw on the BBC site 14 smiling mugs that they think might want to replace her. But my question is - can any of them, or Labour or even a Lib Dem actually produce a workable Brexit or is there just going to be more of te same just with a different PM

No. I don't think Brexit is workable in that it already is a burden on the UK and most of the people, and any Brexit will make things worse. So revoke article 50 for me.

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

Gents,

I have to say it’s odd. Those right of centre are supposedly the unfeeling, nasty ones. But the hatred and bile expressed towards the likes of May or Farage does you little credit. I thought you guys were supposed to be the tolerant lovely ones?

I know you’ll say it’s OK to be like this about these types because you ‘know’ they’re devils incarnate and deserving of the treatment you dish out, but to me you just come across as completely opposite to the kind of individuals I know you to be.

Surprising.

Neither has caused anywhere near the harm that the Blair creature has. Neither ever will.

Yeah, May was useless, but she’s now history. Who the **** cares?

One of the best posts I've ever seen. I cannot believe the bile towards May whose at least given it a go.

Would have loved to see ANY of her armchair critics do better.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I’m backing Esther McVey to be the next PM for no reason other than she’s the only one I’d like to bend over a billiard table.

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Bet you wouldn't kick Penny off the green baize!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

One of the best posts I've ever seen. I cannot believe the bile towards May whose at least given it a go.

Would have loved to see ANY of her armchair critics do better.

Agree that most of the personal stuff against May is unnecessary (although I thought the blubbering outburst at the end of her speech yesterday was indulgent - a touch of Violet Elizabeth Bott's). However, a six year old could have done better than May on the two major issues.

1. 2017 Election failure. May had a bad habit of assembling a small coterie of the wrong people around her, and then telling everyone outside it that she had things under control and to butt out. First policy in her 2017 campaign was a vote to bring back fox hunting to Parliament. WHAT? Her fellow MP's said it was all part of a cunning plan, and on election night, they found it was not.

2. Negotiations with the EU. She and her civil servant advisors were defensive and apologetic to the EU from the word go, in the face of aggressive and adversarial positions taken by the likes of Guy Verhofstadt. She should never have agreed that all negotiations took place in Brussels. She should never have agreed that we pay £39bn before talks for a free trade agreement even started. She should never have given the Irish Premier the right of veto over the UK's future trading policy. If she and Olly Robbins had been much tougher, we would not be in this unenviable position now.

Whoever replaces her, has to go for a negotiated WTO relationship. Negotiated, because there are steps that can be taken in every area of trade or finance that can save jobs on both sides of the Channel. From Monday, we may see a much changed EU but I still see Merkel as the key. I'm confident, she (and hopefully her successor) will take all reasonable steps to find a WTO compromise that causes least damage, and we will be OUT!

 

[sb_73]

One of the best posts I've ever seen. I cannot believe the bile towards May whose at least given it a go.

Would have loved to see ANY of her armchair critics do better.

How, exactly, could any of them do worse? Start a war?

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

How, exactly, could any of them do worse? Start a war?

I would love to be able to turn the clock back, put in place any of her detractors and see how well they do. No better I suspect. Time will tell as we are sort of running that experiment between now and Oct 31st. I do hope we end up with a Brexit voter in place.

 

[rangercol]

I would love to be able to turn the clock back, put in place any of her detractors and see how well they do. No better I suspect. Time will tell as we are sort of running that experiment between now and Oct 31st. I do hope we end up with a Brexit voter in place.

Whilst I feel a little sympathy for May on a purely human level, I disagree that no one could have done any better.
I acknowledge that she was up against extreme Brexiteers in her own party, civil servants who are around 90% remain (leaked by a serving civil servant) and a Parliament overwhelmingly wanting to remain.
However, she herself wanted to remain, meaning that her heart was never in the job and there are first hand reports that she saw brexit as a damage limitation exercise. She also had zero comunication skills and simply didn't know how to lead. Devotion to duty simply wasn't enough.
No where near enough!

Had someone who believed in brexit gone into the negotiations right from the start and convinced the EU that we would leave with no deal if there was no agreement, I believe we would have had a deal.

I don't like Boris but he may just have the balls to get the thing done.

Esther McVey would be a good choice in my opinion (but then I thought that when the hapless May took over).

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

Whilst I feel a little sympathy for May on a purely human level, I disagree that no one could have done any better.
I acknowledge that she was up against extreme Brexiteers in her own party, civil servants who are around 90% remain (leaked by a serving civil servant) and a Parliament overwhelmingly wanting to remain.
However, she herself wanted to remain, meaning that her heart was never in the job and there are first hand reports that she saw brexit as a damage limitation exercise. She also had zero comunication skills and simply didn't know how to lead. Devotion to duty simply wasn't enough.
No where near enough!

Had someone who believed in brexit gone into the negotiations right from the start and convinced the EU that we would leave with no deal if there was no agreement, I believe we would have had a deal.

I don't like Boris but he may just have the balls to get the thing done.

Esther McVey would be a good choice in my opinion (but then I thought that when the hapless May took over).

We don't have the luxury of knowing what might have happened but it will be interesting to see the reaction from the EU if someone new does go in and play hardball.

 

[sb_73]

I would love to be able to turn the clock back, put in place any of her detractors and see how well they do. No better I suspect. Time will tell as we are sort of running that experiment between now and Oct 31st. I do hope we end up with a Brexit voter in place.

OK, here is a way anybody could have done better, while delivering Brexit and staying true to the first loyalty, the Tory Party.
1. Do not invoke Article 50 until you have consensus within the Tory Party on the deal. Then you have a Tory party Brexit. She inherited a Majority Tory Parliament, remember.
2. Do not call a second election (just as you promised you wouldn’t)
3. Go to the EU and say ‘this is what we want, if that is fundamentallyunacceptable to you we will go for a no deal Brexit. If the principles are acceptable, let’s negotiate the details, the ranges, the tolerances’.
4. If the EU accept, invoke Article 50 and start the discussions. If they play silly buggers and say we can’t respond until you invoke Article 50, say you will take that as a no then.
5. If the EU says no start preparations for a no deal Brexit and invoke Article 50 when you are confident that you will be as prepared as possible within two years.
6. With the game of chicken initiated, see if the EU blinks. If it doesn’t, so be it, the UK government is pursuing a clear, agreed, and unambiguous strategy.

Away from the EU name me a single thing she has handled well, or policy area where the country is in a better place than we were in pre May. The one thing she has had personal control over for nearly ten years, as Home Secretary and PM, non EU immigration, is still rising. Windrush handled well (she created that too as Home Secretary)? Grenfell? Any progress in education, health, transport, defence, power generation? Northern Ireland in better nick now than in 2015? Division between north and south? Personal debt? British Steel? I don’t think government policy since 2016 has much to do with the high employment levels.

**** all. Empathy is the human quality I value above all others, but I have none for her. I got her measure when she called me a ‘citizen of nowhere’ within a few weeks of becoming leader. Before then I had some sympathy for her as the best of a bad bunch.

I reckon that even that piece of excrement Boris Johnson would have had this settled by now, probably in embarrassing and disastrous fashion, but at least done.

 

[sb_73]

I’m backing Esther McVey to be the next PM for no reason other than she’s the only one I’d like to bend over a billiard table.

Careful her stitches don’t snap and scars burst open.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The EU's stance will be to keep stating as a mantra that the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be opened. But if a WTO exit is on the cards, they will start to negotiate - they may leave it late, but they will move, because WTO is all downhill for them. The leaders like Merkel particularly that have a horse in this race and an electorate to answer to, will do everything they can to avoid job and order losses in their countries