Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

To quote one of our numerous Brexit Secretaries, “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy".



I can see the logic behind excluding Remain from the options in a new referendum, but I think that would be wrong. According to recent polls, Remain has an 8-10 point lead and that's too big a lead to ignore, I would say. Now I know people will say that the polls got it wrong last time, but the 'shy Leave voter' factor is unlikely to be at play now. I would imagine that any Leave voters canvassed would be only too keen to say how they feel. There's nothing undemocratic in asking people to vote again now they know with much more clarity what Brexit would entail.

Having said that, even I'm not sure I would want to go through the whole thing again. If Parliament got behind Norway Plus, I think I'd settle for that.

I don’t know mate, I’m completely ****ed off with the whole thing. I have no doubt that I have contradicted myself multiple times in just the last few pages of this gargantuan thread. But like a bee round a flower, or more aptly a fly around ****, my head keeps on thinking about it.

I would like to capture David Cameron and tattoo ‘Mega Twat’ on his forehead though. With a very dirty needle.

 

[rangercol]

If it's not in The best interests of the country then I couldn't give a flying **** about democracy mate. Why anyone would want a no deal scenario totally baffles me. Negotiating new trade deals....we couldn't negotiate to save our lives!!!

Not giving a flying **** about democracy is a fatal road to go down imo.
It leads to places like North Korea and the hellish dictatorships we've seen throughout history.
This could all have been avoided had the idiots you now trust to do the right thing (in your opinion) had been truthful and followed the result of the referendum in the first place.

 

[Stroller]

Would be interested to see those polls Stroller...

I'd love to remain, and think it would be entirely justified if the public had clearly changed their mind and there was a clamour for remain among those who had voted leave. I just don't see any evidence of a change of mind, and think the spin against the EU over the last two years (which contrary to many, I think has been fairly transparent about its position throughout) will have pushed more to a leave position.

Peter Kellner was on the John Pienaar radio show on Sunday and he said that there had been a distinct move towards Remain. The Remain lead of '8-10 points' was quoting him.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

They twist their own rules to suit their purposes. We know that. They always have!

Dear me. What would you lot have said if they had decided the other way or decided that we could only change our minds if the Europeans decided to end the privileged status we already had where we could pick and choose which parts we would follow ie no more opt outs. Doesn't exactly sound as though they doing anything other than telling the others that we have total freedom to do what we like

 

[bobmid]

Not giving a flying **** about democracy is a fatal road to go down imo.
It leads to places like North Korea and the hellish dictatorships we've seen throughout history.
This could all have been avoided had the idiots you now trust to do the right thing (in your opinion) had been truthful and followed the result of the referendum in the first place.

Well we know that ship has sailed. Would you vote for the party again in the next election mate?

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Well, hadn't we been told by Brexiteers that if we wanted to stay, the EU would make us rejoin on much worse terms, join the Euro, Schengen etc (you know, project fear)? The ECJ has confirmed that none of this is true, and that we could stay in on exactly the same terms as we now enjoy. I'd say that it was important that this was made clear before MPs vote on May's deal. Of course the timing was deliberate, the vote's tomorrow - or it was going to be.

Yes. I think it's called OPERATION FEAR

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Pathetic.

Try and argue your point. I find it works wonders.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Not giving a flying **** about democracy is a fatal road to go down imo.
It leads to places like North Korea and the hellish dictatorships we've seen throughout history.
This could all have been avoided had the idiots you now trust to do the right thing (in your opinion) had been truthful and followed the result of the referendum in the first place.

We have a dictatorship running the show here at the moment ... cancellation of a vote because they can’t win ... what is that?

North Korea is fine by the way

 

[QPR Oslo]

Do you have any evidence that half the population want another referendum?

Yes. A UGov poll in July showed 42% wanted another vote, 40% didn't, rest didn't know. A BMG poll earlier that month had 44% for another vote, only 27% against. Roughly a half was conservative and a he'll of a lot closer than than SB's zero.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Peter Kellner was on the John Pienaar radio show on Sunday and he said that there had been a distinct move towards Remain. The Remain lead of '8-10 points' was quoting him.

In one poll in November. Sadly average of polls not showing that:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

Good place to track it.

 

[sb_73]

Yes. A UGov poll in July showed 42% wanted another vote, 40% didn't, rest didn't know. A BMG poll earlier that month had 44% for another vote, only 27% against. Roughly a half was conservative and a he'll of a lot closer than than SB's zero.

July? Come on it’s ****ing December. Look at the stuff Raving has just posted. The numbers vary daily and no side has a sustained majority, there is no trend. There is no trend because we have no source of authority to trust, UK or EU, we have no trusted leadership, in or out of power. And a ****ing poll, which have got the referendum and three successive elections wrong, is not a credible source anyway.

 

[ELLERS]

You do talk some ****e Ellers.

Go away you don't understand remember

 

[Staines R's]

Peter Kellner was on the John Pienaar radio show on Sunday and he said that there had been a distinct move towards Remain. The Remain lead of '8-10 points' was quoting him.

Phew, that’s ok then.
It must be true

 

[bobmid]

Go away you don't understand remember

Does leave mean leave?

 

[Staines R's]

Yes. A UGov poll in July showed 42% wanted another vote, 40% didn't, rest didn't know. A BMG poll earlier that month had 44% for another vote, only 27% against. Roughly a half was conservative and a he'll of a lot closer than than SB's zero.

That’s not ‘roughly half the population’ is it now.
You’re now talking rubbish Oslo

 

[KPDHoopster]

Yes general elections are important not as important as this vote however not intge sane keague
60/40 nothing less imo you keep going until the majority hits 60% that a true will of the people then
Don’t care what you feel to be frank
I post because I am passionate against Brexit and hope come the final time Brexiteers will be stopped from taking our country down

Then try some logical arguments, instead of hysteria !!

 

[bobmid]

Go away you don't understand remember

Seriously though now, would you vote Tory in the next election?

 

[Staines R's]

Seriously though now, would you vote Tory in the next election?

I do actually think this whole debacle could actually push people into voting more extreme in the future....both Left and Right.

 

[bobmid]

I do actually think this whole debacle could actually push people into voting more extreme in the future....both Left and Right.

Interesting thought. I know I Tory bash but if this all happened under labour/lib dem/greens etc would a loyal supporter bring themselves to vote for the said party again.

 

[ELLERS]

What a nightmare some MP just took the (sorry forgot what its called.. the big gold thing that gets carried into the commons). he has just been kicked out.

MACE!