Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Another Brexit conversation in the pub this afternoon (it can be done). We seem to have found an equilibrium whereby everybody knows just how far they can go without provoking a shouting match. Again, everybody (four Leavers and two Remainers) agreed that the whole thing is a giant ****-up, but my fellow Remainer surprised me by saying not just that he thought that Brexit must happen (fair enough), but that it should happen even if it turned to be a disastrous No-Deal fiasco. An odd view in my opinion.

Anyway, the good news is that Boris Johnson has said that he will take 'personal responsibility' if No-Deal happens and people wind up losing their jobs. That should be a big comfort to all those in Leave-voting areas that will be worst affected.

Is Boris going to compensate them out of his own pocket?

I kind of understand where your Remainer mate is coming from, it’s a kind of sadomasochistic, ‘they asked for it, let them have it come what may’ attitude. Not worth the pain for those most at risk in my view.

 

[ELLERS]

Well no we can’t agree that because this is about French internal politics, not Brexit, and use of propaganda.

That’s a better source. It also adds a bit of context, and I have to say that I am ambivalent about their treatment. Regrettable, undesirable, but if a large number of them were hooded and masked, and had incendiary devices and clubs, as the Sky story implies, understandable. Personally I don’t think their age is that relevant, their criminality is. I notice that none are wearing yellow jackets, and their alleged reason for protesting is that it will be more difficult to get into Uni in France in future.

But in general, if police are struggling to contain mass protests, with a minority of those involved intent on violence, we are going to see extreme policing measures. Which I don’t like, but prefer to criminal anarchy. I thought most Tories were in favour of strict law and order and protection of property. Or because it’s in France and it’s threatening to a French leader you don’t like, does that change the rules?

The flip side is it because your pin-up boy is making a tw2t of himself you don't like it?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Another Brexit conversation in the pub this afternoon (it can be done). We seem to have found an equilibrium whereby everybody knows just how far they can go without provoking a shouting match. Again, everybody (four Leavers and two Remainers) agreed that the whole thing is a giant ****-up, but my fellow Remainer surprised me by saying not just that he thought that Brexit must happen (fair enough), but that it should happen even if it turned to be a disastrous No-Deal fiasco. An odd view in my opinion.

Anyway, the good news is that Boris Johnson has said that he will take 'personal responsibility' if No-Deal happens and people wind up losing their jobs. That should be a big comfort to all those in Leave-voting areas that will be worst affected.

I'm impressed by the reasonableness of your friends, Strolls. I have Remain relatives whose backs have been put up by the way the EU has negotiated eg anonymous briefings, isolating May at meetings, refusal to compromise etc They too just want to get on with split from the EU.

I think a second referendum would achieve nothing but increased resentment and division. We have to get out in March and move on. The EU will negotiate on thst basis if they know we're serious.

 

[rangercol]

This coming week could signal the death of democracy in this Country, if the ruling elite get their wish of ensuring brexit never happens.
There has never been the political will to negotiate a good deal for the UK. Instead, the treacherous ****ers have made sure that we caved in at every turn to guarantee them being able to say that this deal isn't what anyone voted for, so we must vote again until they get the answer they want.
If the political will had been there, I believe that a good, softish deal could have been achieved and the whole nation could have tried to move on together.
Instead, these self serving muppets have killed democracy for each and every one of the 17.5million people who voted leave and have destroyed everyone's faith in the ruling elite.

 

[rangercol]

Is Boris going to compensate them out of his own pocket?

I kind of understand where your Remainer mate is coming from, it’s a kind of sadomasochistic, ‘they asked for it, let them have it come what may’ attitude. Not worth the pain for those most at risk in my view.

Nope. None of us asked for this deal.

 

[kiwiqpr]

Tax burden on British businesses and families hits 50-year high at 34.6%

• In its 2017 manifesto the Government promised to keep taxes as low as possible
• New figures show the tax burden has soared to 34.6% of gross domestic product
• Former Cabinet minister Priti Patel said the revelation was 'an embarrassment'

 

[sb_73]

The problem being that not all of these children were throwing petrol bombs or whatever. Some of them look terrified and probably just caught up in it.
The flip side to your argument is what if it was your kid innocently being treated like a POW, how would you feel?
Just look at the outrage it has caused.... we can't all be wrong.

The flip side is it because your pin-up boy is making a tw2t of himself you don't like it?

wow two responses for the price of one! If you track back you will see that in response to one of your posts I admitted to getting it wrong about Macron. Admissions of fallibility might be incredible to you but they do happen.

You clearly want to drag this out for ages, not sure why. As I have said these tactics aren’t nice, if some innocent kids got caught up it’s deeply regrettable. But the situation in France is pretty extreme at the moment, over 100,000 protesters out there. If less than 10% of them want to cause trouble it’s a policing nightmare. I hope the ones who look terrified do so because they know they are in deep ****. If my son got caught up in this innocently I would of course be hugely pissed off, but would also be asking how come he was in a mob like that in the first place? If you want to riot, go for it and accept the consequences, don’t hang around with rioters and trouble stirrers otherwise, the police really don’t have time to get into legal niceties, establishing who intended to do what, in these circumstances.

 

[ELLERS]

This coming week could signal the death of democracy in this Country, if the ruling elite get their wish of ensuring brexit never happens.
There has never been the political will to negotiate a good deal for the UK. Instead, the treacherous ****ers have made sure that we caved in at every turn to guarantee them being able to say that this deal isn't what anyone voted for, so we must vote again until they get the answer they want.
If the political will had been there, I believe that a good, softish deal could have been achieved and the whole nation could have tried to move on together.
Instead, these self serving muppets have killed democracy for each and every one of the 17.5million people who voted leave and have destroyed everyone's faith in the ruling elite.

I wouldn't worry Col as I heard a reporter on the news today saying that meetings have taken place with big business and that they would rather have a no deal than a Corbyn government. That says it all?

 

[kiwiqpr]

The point is that school children shouldn't be treated like that?
https://news.sky.com/story/anger-as...nds-behind-heads-amid-paris-lockdown-11573997

Laurent Saint-Martin, a senior member of the ruling Republic On The Move (LREM) party, said around 40 of the students were masked and intent on carrying out vandalism and arson.
But he too described the videos as "shocking", telling Franceinfo radio: "It's right to be angry, looking at these images."
Defending the treatment of the children, Interior Minister Christophe Castaner aid: "Over the past few days, the students have been joined by about 100 hooded youths armed with clubs and incendiary devices and determined to pick a fight with police."
He said roadblocks had been set alight, missiles hurled at motorists and houses robbed in the area.
"It is in this context that the security forces stepped in," said Mr Castaner.

dont personally have a problem with the treatment if the above is true

 

[Sooperhoop]

This coming week could signal the death of democracy in this Country, if the ruling elite get their wish of ensuring brexit never happens.
There has never been the political will to negotiate a good deal for the UK. Instead, the treacherous ****ers have made sure that we caved in at every turn to guarantee them being able to say that this deal isn't what anyone voted for, so we must vote again until they get the answer they want.
If the political will had been there, I believe that a good, softish deal could have been achieved and the whole nation could have tried to move on together.
Instead, these self serving muppets have killed democracy for each and every one of the 17.5million people who voted leave and have destroyed everyone's faith in the ruling elite.

I have to say it's been a very long time since I've had any remote faith in the ruling elite, and from experience I'd say they are a bunch of self-serving c*nts...

 

[ELLERS]

wow two responses for the price of one! If you track back you will see that in response to one of your posts I admitted to getting it wrong about Macron. Admissions of fallibility might be incredible to you but they do happen.

You clearly want to drag this out for ages, not sure why. As I have said these tactics aren’t nice, if some innocent kids got caught up it’s deeply regrettable. But the situation in France is pretty extreme at the moment, over 100,000 protesters out there. If less than 10% of them want to cause trouble it’s a policing nightmare. I hope the ones who look terrified do so because they know they are in deep ****. If my son got caught up in this innocently I would of course be hugely pissed off, but would also be asking how come he was in a mob like that in the first place? If you want to riot, go for it and accept the consequences, don’t hang around with rioters and trouble stirrers otherwise, the police really don’t have time to get into legal niceties, establishing who intended to do what, in these circumstances.

wow two responses for the price of one? I sent the second to Bobby?

 

[Stroller]

This coming week could signal the death of democracy in this Country, if the ruling elite get their wish of ensuring brexit never happens.
There has never been the political will to negotiate a good deal for the UK. Instead, the treacherous ****ers have made sure that we caved in at every turn to guarantee them being able to say that this deal isn't what anyone voted for, so we must vote again until they get the answer they want.
If the political will had been there, I believe that a good, softish deal could have been achieved and the whole nation could have tried to move on together.
Instead, these self serving muppets have killed democracy for each and every one of the 17.5million people who voted leave and have destroyed everyone's faith in the ruling elite.

If our sovereign Parliament saves us from the immense folly of a 'tell 'em to **** off' No-Deal Brexit, the 'ruling elite' as you like to call them (actually our elected representatives) will have done a fine job, in my opinion.

 

[kiwiqpr]

Britain's decline was set in the 60's, the internal nut was removed from the Walnut Whip.
In 2017 they tried to remove the top nut too (try that on the French).
The final nail was in the 80's, the Victory V lozenge, for some odd reason, stopped using chloroform & ether. Bastards.

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[sb_73]

wow two responses for the price of one? I sent the second to Bobby?

Fair enough, my mistake, two admissions of fallibility from me in one day, enjoy!

 

[ELLERS]

Laurent Saint-Martin, a senior member of the ruling Republic On The Move (LREM) party, said around 40 of the students were masked and intent on carrying out vandalism and arson.
But he too described the videos as "shocking", telling Franceinfo radio: "It's right to be angry, looking at these images."
Defending the treatment of the children, Interior Minister Christophe Castaner aid: "Over the past few days, the students have been joined by about 100 hooded youths armed with clubs and incendiary devices and determined to pick a fight with police."
He said roadblocks had been set alight, missiles hurled at motorists and houses robbed in the area.
"It is in this context that the security forces stepped in," said Mr Castaner.

dont personally have a problem with the treatment if the above is true

Maybe the students were joined by people intent on causing trouble? I just heard a report of the outrage of their treatment.

 

[ELLERS]

Fair enough, my mistake, two admissions of fallibility from me in one day, enjoy!

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[Stroller]

This coming week could signal the death of democracy in this Country, if the ruling elite get their wish of ensuring brexit never happens.
There has never been the political will to negotiate a good deal for the UK. Instead, the treacherous ****ers have made sure that we caved in at every turn to guarantee them being able to say that this deal isn't what anyone voted for, so we must vote again until they get the answer they want.
If the political will had been there, I believe that a good, softish deal could have been achieved and the whole nation could have tried to move on together.
Instead, these self serving muppets have killed democracy for each and every one of the 17.5million people who voted leave and have destroyed everyone's faith in the ruling elite.

Do you not see the irony here, Col? Your Leave vote was all about sovereignty, so you say, and what we are seeing (or may see) is a sovereign Parliament of our elected representatives acting, as they properly should, in the Country's best interests in mitigating the worst Brexit outcome.

 

[ELLERS]

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I do! In fact as soon as they are made in Holland I will lose mine Eurocrap one and get my old passport back!

 

[BobbyD]

The problem being that not all of these children were throwing petrol bombs or whatever. Some of them look terrified and probably just caught up in it.
The flip side to your argument is what if it was your kid innocently being treated like a POW, how would you feel?
Just look at the outrage it has caused.... we can't all be wrong.

Thought you sent this to sb too at first. I echo sbs sentiments. If it was an accident i would do what i could and wouldnt be happy but why he was with these rioters in the first place would be questioned by me.