Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

I'm not a Blair fan, but to be fair to him, things did get better in many ways. Funding for the NHS, Education, Police etc. was at record levels under his government. All dismantled by the Tories, of course.

NHS does look better,
however,
with the schools, all they did was build a few new buildings and forgot about the most important part... the teachers. He saddled them with paperwork and endless targets causing many good teachers to leave the profession. The dumbing down of exams was scandalous. He brought in a culture of none failure, basically allowing students to turn up write their name on the paper and get a grade. I won't get started on the PC crap in schools and the loss of the competitive edge. However, the one good thing came out of his inability to manage education... The free schools.

 

[DT’s Socks]

It’s the blame show

 

[bobmid]

NHS does look better,
however,
with the schools, all they did was build a few new buildings and forgot about the most important part... the teachers. He saddled them with paperwork and endless targets causing many good teachers to leave the profession. The dumbing down of exams was scandalous. He brought in a culture of none failure, basically allowing students to turn up write their name on the paper and get a grade. I won't get started on the PC crap in schools and the loss of the competitive edge. However, the one good thing came out of his inability to manage education... The free schools.

Have to totally agree with Ellers there. Yes I said agree! Schools are getting worse in my opinion aswell despite the Ofsted reports which are worth as much as scraped off dog **** from your shoe!

 

[rangercol]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

Superb post Goldie.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

That would be Elsie from Boston?

Yes tbh not keen on her she has had her life and has had the freedom to make her choices

Polish tradesmen on the whole imo vastly better

Elsie’s husband should of kept up with the times and maybe retrained ? Elsie in fact went on private health scheme

We sold MK electronics to Honeywell USA
if only Elsie’s husband could of seen the changes coming to that industry
There he was probably in a bubble with a massive mark up and margins ripping off his customers then some one comes along and does a better job for 25% of what Elsie’s husband charged

Oh he lost his customer base and Elsie had to wear clogs ... have you ever met a poor electrician? She was probably hated in her own town for being well off such is the culture

I purchased my house for my family in The South if France to give them a way out because I believe Elsie’s attitude would drag the UK to its knees

I have walked in worse shoes than Elsie’s my friend much worse.

Done the Car it’s the best engineered 4x4 you can buy on a budget because City Folk are throwing them away It’s all Tesla now downtown baby!

They could of been made in Lincoln if people hadn’t allow the Polish to invade now it looks like Tesla’s will be made in Poland or Germany

Ester Ranzen has a load to answer for

You're an upwardly mobile bloke, and good on you. You've done for well yourself and your family by talent and hard work.

Not everyone is like that. There are many families that are conservative (small c), content with their lives and averse to big change. Let me ask you this. Your reply to me was - faced with the changes forced upon them, Elsie's family should get over it, get on their bikes and make a better life for themselves.

What's the difference between your attitude to her, and what you complain of about Thatcher's attitude to the Scargill and the miners? I'll give you the answer now - there isn't one

 

[DT’s Socks]

Let’s talk about Derek from Surrey

Derek has his own building company which he has built up from scratch since leaving school He is self made

Derek employs 22 people and his company has a full book of ongoing and future projects

Through hard work Derek has gained considerable wealth

Derek was married but his wife left him 6 years ago for another woman she met at a yoga retreat
They have two grown children aged 18 and 20

Both of the children don’t know really what they want to do and are at university. Roger the eldest is taking a degree in street entertainment while Sally who is a fan of the Meerkats and the Planet Earth documentaries wants to do something with animals. Both are vegans but they do eat fish

Derek has trouble getting skilled British tradesmen because there aren’t any so he employs mainly highly skilled craftsmen from all over Europe

He pays them very well as he understands his business he has built relies on his staff and the excellent reputation that has come through hard work and endeavour

Derek pays massive amounts of tax to the government and also contributes £1k a month to the charity Scope

Derek voted to remain in the EU

He also runs a local incentive through his business to encourage young British people to take up apprenticeships in the building trade sadly its very difficult to find anyone really interested or worse still committed enough to keep to the program

In his spare time Derek runs a youth football side
Many of his workers have sons that play in that side. They are top of the league unbeaten and a couple of players Pavel and Lucco have attracted the attention of local talent scout Bob

Derek’s team are on a Cup run and are due to play the Goldhawks in the semi final

Derek is beginning to worry about Brexit and the impacts after we leave the EU. Derek is also worried about the way we leave the EU

Derek has recently been told that his children haven’t completed enough subject course work and are unlikely to get qualifications

This a big worry to Derek because he has a potential job offer for Roger and maybe Sally

Quentin from London who he did work for has a number of properties in Brighton well 13 to be exact. Quentin thinks it would be a great idea if he and his partner would give over one of his houses to Roger so they could open up a start up charity for clowns who have lost their jobs since the Circus decline. Sally could even look after the old monkeys

Sadly all this is up in the air because qualified people must be on the paperwork

Derek watches the news as Brexit looms nearer and a no deal Brexit looks likely ... bugger that was a waste of £200k he contributed to Janet the local conservative MP (aka moon kiss dragon) what’s more she nicked his wife (downward dog)

Derek’s workforce are also worried because they no one new is joining the company Brexit has halted the flow of talent required

Derek puts on the carp skin slippers his workforce presented him with on his birthday and heads off naked into the Surrey Hills

 

[DT’s Socks]

You're an upwardly mobile bloke, and good on you. You've done for well yourself and your family by talent and hard work.

Not everyone is like that. There are many families that are conservative (small c), content with their lives and averse to big change. Let me ask you this. Your reply to me was - faced with the changes forced upon them, Elsie's family should get over it, get on their bikes and make a better life for themselves.

What's the difference between your attitude to her, and Thatcher's attitude to the Scargill and the miners? I'll give you the answer now - there isn't one

There is an answer Goldie
Keep up with the times at all times
Do not trust any British politicians or you will find yourself trapped.

Goldie I am nothing mate and gave away everything 12years ago and restarted mate

Yes I was fortunate to be put in the South East

The properties aren’t mine (Mrs DT)

I purchased in France to save money and give my sons (from 1st Marriage) a future that is a worth while life imo. Bilingual and options to explore proud to have done that ... nothing clever just a way out

In a strange way the South East is trapped worse than Elsie from Lincolnshire but that’s what greed does to people

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Let’s talk about Derek from Surrey

Derek has his own building company which he has built up from scratch since leaving school He is self made

Derek employs 22 people and his company has a full book of ongoing and future projects

Through hard work Derek has gained considerable wealth

Derek was married but his wife left him 6 years ago for another woman she met at a yoga retreat
They have two grown children aged 18 and 20

Both of the children don’t know really what they want to do and are at university. Roger the eldest is taking a degree in street entertainment while Sally who is a fan of the Meerkats and the Planet Earth documentaries wants to do something with animals. Both are vegans but they do eat fish

Derek has trouble getting skilled British tradesmen because there aren’t any so he employs mainly highly skilled craftsmen from all over Europe

He pays them very well as he understands his business he has built relies on his staff and the excellent reputation that has come through hard work and endeavour

Derek pays massive amounts of tax to the government and also contributes £1k a month to the charity Scope

Derek voted to remain in the EU

He also runs a local incentive through his business to encourage young British people to take up apprenticeships in the building trade sadly its very difficult to find anyone really interested or worse still committed enough to keep to the program

In his spare time Derek runs a youth football side
Many of his workers have sons that play in that side. They are top of the league unbeaten and a couple of players Pavel and Lucco have attracted the attention of local talent scout Bob

Derek’s team are on a Cup run and are due to play the Goldhawks in the semi final

Derek is beginning to worry about Brexit and the impacts after we leave the EU. Derek is also worried about the way we leave the EU

Derek has recently been told that his children haven’t completed enough subject course work and are unlikely to get qualifications

This a big worry to Derek because he has a potential job offer for Roger and maybe Sally

Quentin from London who he did work for has a number of properties in Brighton well 13 to be exact. Quentin thinks it would be a great idea if he and his partner would give over one of his houses to Roger so they could open up a start up charity for clowns who have lost their jobs since the Circus decline. Sally could even look after the old monkeys

Sadly all this is up in the air because qualified people must be on the paperwork

Derek watches the news as Brexit looms nearer and a no deal Brexit looks likely ... bugger that was a waste of £200k he contributed to Janet the local conservative MP (aka moon kiss dragon) what’s more she nicked his wife (downward dog)

Derek’s workforce are also worried because they no one new is joining the company Brexit has halted the flow of talent required

Derek puts on the carp skin slippers his workforce presented him with on his birthday and heads off naked into the Surrey Hills

If Derek put his clothes on for the interviews, he might hire more people...

 

[kiwiqpr]

It is wrong to describe what is going on at the #Conservative Party as a coup. It is simply re-arranging the rubble.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

The treacherous Blair deserves his own thread. He was a crap PM that sold our country and troops out.
Remember that things can only get better? That was laughable.

Mmm. It's funny how nobody saw through him while the economy boomed and he felt free to lead the world from a cosy position inside Bush's arse all the way through the humanitarian interventions in the Balkans. Three landslide victories at the polls and then like all infallible deeply loved leaders (at least they thought so anyway) he backed his own judgment once again and took us into another war as Bush's sidekick and the body bags started to pile while the WMDs were exposed to be the lies or more likely half truths based on rumours and the price paid for nuggets of fake information. he did so simply because he believed it at the time. It fitted his pre-conceptions and his vanity to ride around on a white charger.

He regrets it now. You see it in face ravaged by guilt. However does he admit even to himself that he got it badly wrong. Never. he did what he thought was right wipes away a fake tear and if asked would he do it again , you bet he would. He believes he is a God who never gets it wrong - just as Thatcher did till her dying day

 

[kiwiqpr]

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£200k+ a year BBC media editor interviews £450k+ director general on why the BBC needs to force over 75s to pay the £150.50 licence fee ....

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

I see that JRM and his mob the ERG have gone back to advising TM what to do and everyone else what needs to be done. Put up or shut up. The same goes for the DUP. Time to unravel that deal and save the money promised to Arlene for her kitchen make-over. Having seen off the Tory Brexiteers I doubt whether May is in the mood to reverse it all now to keep Arlene smelling sweet. JRM realises the consequences of his actions. The DUP doesn't and given that there is no clear consensus or discipline within the mainstream parties the DUP can take their share of responsibility for what will happen if the whole of Ireland as well as Great Britain suffers for the purity of their principles.

 

[ELLERS]

Mmm. It's funny how nobody saw through him while the economy boomed and he felt free to lead the world from a cosy position inside Bush's arse all the way through the humanitarian interventions in the Balkans. Three landslide victories at the polls and then like all infallible deeply loved leaders (at least they thought so anyway) he backed his own judgment once again and took us into another war as Bush's sidekick and the body bags started to pile while the WMDs were exposed to be the lies or more likely half truths based on rumours and the price paid for nuggets of fake information. he did so simply because he believed it at the time. It fitted his pre-conceptions and his vanity to ride around on a white charger.

He regrets it now. You see it in face ravaged by guilt. However does he admit even to himself that he got it badly wrong. Never. he did what he thought was right wipes away a fake tear and if asked would he do it again , you bet he would. He believes he is a God who never gets it wrong - just as Thatcher did till her dying day

I don't know if you are supporting him or saying he was a lying twat.
He lied to the people of this country on many occasions. He cost the lives of our troops and will never be forgiven. Not only did he lie about the WMD's (whether it was on crap info), what is worse is that Blair and that weasel face Geoff Hoon sent our brave soldiers off to war ill-equipped and then lied on national radio saying they had the best equipment only for a serving soldier to phone in saying that he had to share bullets and vests. That week 6 military police died because they were trapped in a house and ran out of bullets. They were beaten to death stripped naked and strung up.
There should be no support for Tony Blair on Iraq. I hope he rots in hell for what he did.

 

[DT’s Socks]

I don't know if you are supporting him or saying he was a lying twat.
He lied to the people of this country on many occasions. He cost the lives of our troops and will never be forgiven. Not only did he lie about the WMD's (whether it was on crap info), what is worse is that Blair and that weasel face Geoff Hoon sent our brave soldiers off to war ill-equipped and then lied on national radio saying they had the best equipment only for a serving soldier to phone in saying that he had to share bullets and vests. That week 6 military police died because they were trapped in a house and ran out of bullets. They were beaten to death stripped naked and strung up.
There should be no support for Tony Blair on Iraq. I hope he rots in hell for what he did.

Yes I 100% agree with Ellers
The Blair government... that was exactly the time I said to myself enough is enough I am not taking this crap anymore. That’s a hard thing to do when you voting the **** in he was worse than any Tory bar Thatcher which for me personally is a big statement

I certainly hate Tony Blair he should be in prison imo any other European country he would be
He personally destroyed the reputation of the UK
The devil himself plus he did it using Tory policies imo

 

[DT’s Socks]

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£200k+ a year BBC media editor interviews £450k+ director general on why the BBC needs to force over 75s to pay the £150.50 licence fee ....

They need to pay all women the same as they pay linekar?

 

[kiwiqpr]

They need to pay all women the same as they pay linekar?

yes they should when they are presenting match of the day

 

[ELLERS]

I see that JRM and his mob the ERG have gone back to advising TM what to do and everyone else what needs to be done. Put up or shut up. The same goes for the DUP. Time to unravel that deal and save the money promised to Arlene for her kitchen make-over. Having seen off the Tory Brexiteers I doubt whether May is in the mood to reverse it all now to keep Arlene smelling sweet. JRM realises the consequences of his actions. The DUP doesn't and given that there is no clear consensus or discipline within the mainstream parties the DUP can take their share of responsibility for what will happen if the whole of Ireland as well as Great Britain suffers for the purity of their principles.

That does sound right if correct Yorkshire however, I have it on good authority, (Sky news) that TM will listen to the ERG and I believe that amazingly, new technology is available for the Irish border and all bets are off with the vote of no confidence. She is going there tomorrow to try and change this deal.

 

[bobmid]

That does sound right if correct Yorkshire however, I have it on good authority, (Sky news) that TM will listen to the ERG and I believe that amazingly, new technology is available for the Irish border and all bets are off with the vote of no confidence. She is going there tomorrow to try and change this deal.

Think it's the new iPhone 10x thingy

 

[kiwiqpr]

dont worry about the irish border
let the europeans check the irish trucks in calais

 

[ELLERS]

May revives Irish border proposal to appease Eurosceptics
https://www.ft.com/content/34fcfce0-ecc9-11e8-8180-9cf212677a57