Off Topic The Politics Thread

[DT’s Socks]

Again I say the referendum vote is respected

You only have to look at the results breakdown

All major cities in the UK voted remain because life is good and they are multicultural hubs

The rest well you see nothing but neglect

We tend to love and embrace the blame culture

And now my project fear is that the divide only deepens why? Because the mould won’t break they will not serve the people in the manner they should. This is why I do care about the UK

Yes I have a out I designed it that way because I was fortunate and could make that happen

The punk rocker in me, the Irish gypsy blood and the farmer sees the No Deal as the ultimate poke back at these ****s but I also know they have the upper hand and only the fortunate will come through this ... like me they will find a design that suits them first

I understand the vote I love the passion but I hate the nativity of the Brexiteer victim

 

[DT’s Socks]

I see Government Ministers are throwing themselves into project fear mark two, telling us that no deal will result in Armageddon and that the ONLY choice now is this botched deal. Otherwise they're threatening to not implement the referendum result to avoid a no deal.

As I said all along, the ruling classes are fudging the result.

Democracy my arse!!

This is, by a very long country mile, the worst era for a lack of any quality politicians of all colours in my adult life. Shower of ****s, the lot of 'em!

This is 100% understandable but Democracy has to look at the areas of the UK that will suffer and I really passionately believe that will happen
This has been the worse turmoil of our own making in the UKs history
Yes it’s right to feel anger against our governance but why hand it over to them ? Fight from within is a better solution and we will need the EU for that

The people’s vote

 

[Stroller]

Sorry for late reply I was watching The Walking Dead (Theresa May's cabinet)

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[ELLERS]

Though don’t worry about what I think, Peter Lilley (remember him?) has just been on the wireless saying the deal will take 10 minutes,

I watched that and even JRM who was behind him had a small look. He was correct what he said in that Canada and us are completely different. I am actually surprised that someone on the remain side on TV said it would be the same?

The EU has always approached this stuff as a lose-lose scenario and as a damage limitation exercise, while being clear that the UK leaving has to demonstrate to other members that it’s better to stay in.

That is also a fallacy. How can they compare the UK against a lot of crap EU countries? We lead the way in so many things and with or without the EU that will not stop. The fact is, the EU knows that we will move forward while they try and hold together something that is divided.

As you said

The Germans are telling them all to shut up and get the Withdrawal Agreement done.

I think you should have said 'bullying'. That's what they do, the bully countries that want a change or a say. Take Italy and their reforms? They are being told what they can and can't do by the EU.... fair play to Italy for telling them to F-off. The EU really doesn't work as well as they make out.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Crap EU countries?

Exactly how and where do we lead the way Ellers?

Challenge please try and name 10
(That don’t involve global businesses)

Should be easy coming from a strong opinion as I assume it’s built on facts

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Granted all you have said is correct
France is my home by the way it’s my design and choice

We have on average 130k people leave the UK each year for pastures new
We also have around 600k die each year
But I take your point respectfully we allow a lot of people into our country or better put people find their way into our country and when the bad maths is done the sum shows a massive increase

I am certain they don’t actually know what the population is and certainly don’t have a clue of the breakdown. Where you aware that you can buy a UK passport really easily?

Of course our services and systems cannot cope I totally agree and no sure anyone could disagree because it’s in our faces everywhere

To make that into a major political statement to influence a vote however was and is bad maths

Housing Crisis for example did anyone know that their are plenty of empty houses in the UK on the whole? There are many in London of course where this awful trend started

There are plenty of second or third homes in the UK. I am guilty of being involved in that in the UK hands up ... but I am doing my part because I know I and my partner are wrong so a Kingston property now houses a family in need instead of us making money out of students as we used to do ... it’s a takes a hypocrite to fully understand what is what but the reward is honestly

Birmingham is an area it a lot bigger in real terms than you base your maths on

Cities grow they always will

Infrastructure in the UK does not grow in any ratio to the way populations do that could be managed like the French etc

There is plenty of space in the UK for expansion

Have a look out of any aeroplane next time you are in the air

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

 

[bobmid]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

Poor old Elsie and her children and grandchildren. Now the end of austerity is here, I'm sure her situation will improve.

 

[Stroller]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

Yes that's why a lot of people voted Leave - fear of immigration.

Brexit doesn't stop immigration. It means we can be selective about who we want from other EU countries. It's about control by our elected government.

But Brexit doesn't necessarily reduce immigration, it just changes where the immigrants come from, as May pretty much admitted in her speech to the CBI. Immigration was the number one factor in the outcome of the referendum, but it was a giant red herring.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

[

Yes that's why a lot of people voted Leave - fear of immigration.



But Brexit doesn't necessarily reduce immigration, it just changes where the immigrants come from, as May pretty much admitted in her speech to the CBI. Immigration was the number one factor in the outcome of the referendum, but it was a giant red herring.

Fear of more mass immigration, fear of unrestricted immigration, sure.

Brexit removes the enforceable legal right of other nationals to come and live here. It give a British Government the power to choose whom we want and on what terms. If we don't like the policy, we kick the government out.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

This is a well written and good post. The inherent irony, of course, being that you acknowledge that much of this feeling/experience stems from a 'sovereign' decision taken by Blair's Government to not restrict immigration, which was not dictated by the EU

 

[Stroller]

[



Fear of more mass immigration, fear of unrestricted immigration, sure.

Brexit removes the enforceable legal right of other nationals to come and live here. It give a British Government the power to choose whom we want and on what terms. If we don't like the policy, we kick the government out.

Theresa May, first as Home Secretary and now as PM, has overseen increasing non-EU immigration (the controllable bit) since 2010.

The fact is, as the CBI made clear to May, the economy needs a substantial level of immigration to sustain itself. May knows this, of course, as did Cameron before her, but they conspired to lie to the public about it. They have pretended that they intended to reduce net immigration levels to tens of thousands whilst doing little or nothing towards achieving it (other than to expel Windrush migrants who were fully entitled to be here). May keeps banging on in PMQs every week about how we should celebrate having 'record numbers of people in work'. That's because there are more people here, you mendacious bitch.

Of course large numbers of immigrants into a small area will cause problems, but that's a result of failure to plan resources properly.

I agree with you, we should kick the government out.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

This is a well written and good post. The inherent irony, of course, being that you acknowledge that much of this feeling/experience stems from a 'sovereign' decision taken by Blair's Government to not restrict immigration, which was not dictated by the EU

Blair does have a lot to answer for, agreed. His refusal to put in a restriction is, at least, one of the catalysts.

 

[Quite Possibly Raving]

Blair does have a lot to answer for, agreed. His refusal to put in a restriction is, at least, one of the catalysts.

Hard to disagree with that.

I'd also be interested to explore how much of the negative feeling towards politics stems from the inordinately high expectations placed in Blair pre-1997. It's a topic I've heard Andrew Cooper speak about at length; arguing that Blair was never going to be able to meet the expectations set, and was therefore always going to disappoint and leave people disillusioned, even before you get onto Iraq, immigration etc. Not something you could ever really prove one way or the other, but an interesting question.

 

[ELLERS]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

I have a friend in France who spends every day posting about Brexit on Facebook. He goes on about how Brexit will ruin his and his kids life. He says that all the people in the UK that voted Brexit were uneducated bigots. The ironic thing about what he says was before the Brexit vote. He spent loads of time moaning about the Uk... roads/NHS...everything. He would say how the UK was crap and would never want to live there again.
And...
As soon as Brexit vote he thinks that he has the divine right to tell us (who live here) what we should be doing. Sadly he comes across as a selfish muppet on Brexit. He doesn't care about fishermen/farmers/business or the will of the people, the17.4M that won the democratic vote. All he is interested is himself. This really does irk me. If he loves his life in Europe then good luck to him but don't tell and 17.4 others what we should do in our own country

 

[bobmid]

I have a friend in France who spends every day posting about Brexit on Facebook. He goes on about how Brexit will ruin his and his kids life. He says that all the people in the UK that voted Brexit were uneducated bigots. The ironic thing about what he says was before the Brexit vote. He spent loads of time moaning about the Uk... roads/NHS...everything. He would say how the UK was crap and would never want to live there again.
And...
As soon as Brexit vote he thinks that he has the divine right to tell us (who live here) what we should be doing. Sadly he comes across as a selfish muppet on Brexit. He doesn't care about fishermen/farmers/business or the will of the people, the17.4M that won the democratic vote. All he is interested is himself. This really does irk me. If he loves his life in Europe then good luck to him but don't tell and 17.4 others what we should do in our own country

Is he a good friend Ellers?

 

[ELLERS]

Blair does have a lot to answer for, agreed. His refusal to put in a restriction is, at least, one of the catalysts.

The treacherous Blair deserves his own thread. He was a crap PM that sold our country and troops out.
Remember that things can only get better? That was laughable.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Birmingham's population is just over 800,000. Net population increases have been running at over 300,000 pa, so actually, I have understated the point.

I'll give you credit for being honest about your circumstances. You live in a lovely property in France with its own fishing, drive a Porsche and you own several properties in the UK, presumably some for use for yourself and your family, and some for investment purposes. You work in England and hate Brexiters, partly because it's inconvenient for your own personal circumstances and those of your family.

So let's take a fictitious example of a Brexiter based on actual facts on what people in the UK have been facing. We'll call this individual Elsie, she's 65 years old with a family, working class and has lived in her Lincolnshire village all her life, as did her parents and grandparents, indeed all her ancestors of which she is aware. She knows all her neighbours, indeed most people in the village and will stop to have a chat with anyone. She is not a racist. When the first European immigrants arrive in her village, she welcomes them. They are perfectly decent people and add colour to the village. Elsie has always been a Labour voter, but in the early 2000's she notes with concern that unlike other EU countries,Tony Blair decides to place no restrictions on immigration numbers when the Eastern European countries join the EU.

In a very short space of time, Elsie's village is accommodating very, very large numbers of (mostly young) Polish immigrants. The local store is bought by a Pole and stocks only Polish products. The local school is oversubscribed due to large immigration numbers and her grandson has to travel to the nearest school 7 miles away. The main language in his school is Polish and these difficulties hold back his education somewhat. There's a shortage of council houses due to immigration and Elsie's daughter and her partner can't get a house and move in with her. Elsie can't get an appointment at the local surgery for weeks. When she does, the waiting room is filled with young Polish mums with their children. Elsie's husband is a good electrician but is now undercut by good young Polish electricians who are happy to live 10 to a 3 bedroom house and think the minimum wage is a fortune. When Elsie walks into her village, she only hears Polish spoken now.

There's nothing wrong with the Polish people. Elsie doesn't blame them but the quality of her life and that of her family has taken a dive. Gordon Brown is now prime minister and announces that anyone concerned about the scale of immigration is a bigot. Elsie does something she never thought she would do. She votes Conservative. She has great hope that when the new PM Cameron goes to the EU to try to restrict freedom of movement, he will have some success, so in her village, all the newcomers have time to integrate. But with typical German inflexibility, Mrs Merkel says "Nein" and Cameron comes back and announces a referendum on EU membership.

Elsie votes to leave the EU in the referendum. Therefore you hate her. There really are a lot of people like Elsie, and from your beautiful home in France, you hate her. From your perspective, that's not a good look, is it? There's a saying, walk a mile in another man's shoes. Perhaps you should walk a mile in Elsie's and understand why some people voted out.

That would be Elsie from Boston?

Yes tbh not keen on her she has had her life and has had the freedom to make her choices

Polish tradesmen on the whole imo vastly better

Elsie’s husband should of kept up with the times and maybe retrained ? Elsie in fact went on private health scheme

We sold MK electronics to Honeywell USA
if only Elsie’s husband could of seen the changes coming to that industry
There he was probably in a bubble with a massive mark up and margins ripping off his customers then some one comes along and does a better job for 25% of what Elsie’s husband charged

Oh he lost his customer base and Elsie had to wear clogs ... have you ever met a poor electrician? She was probably hated in her own town for being well off such is the culture

I purchased my house for my family in The South if France to give them a way out because I believe Elsie’s attitude would drag the UK to its knees

I have walked in worse shoes than Elsie’s my friend much worse.

Done the Car it’s the best engineered 4x4 you can buy on a budget because City Folk are throwing them away It’s all Tesla now downtown baby!

They could of been made in Lincoln if people hadn’t allow the Polish to invade now it looks like Tesla’s will be made in Poland or Germany

Ester Ranzen has a load to answer for

 

[ELLERS]

Is he a good friend Ellers?

I would call him a pretty good friend. I have to bit my lip sometimes. Everyone is entitled to have a view but when you make a sweeping statements about 17.4 people you can come across as a bit of a knob.

 

[Stroller]

The treacherous Blair deserves his own thread. He was a crap PM that sold our country and troops out.
Remember that things can only get better? That was laughable.

I'm not a Blair fan, but to be fair to him, things did get better in many ways. Funding for the NHS, Education, Police etc. was at record levels under his government. All dismantled by the Tories, of course.

 

[bobmid]

I would call him a pretty good friend. I have to bit my lip sometimes. Everyone is entitled to have a view but when you make a sweeping statements about 17.4 people you can come across as a bit of a knob.

We all have to bite our lip sometimes but hey ho.