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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Checks on 3,000 foreign doctors after fraudster faked medical degree for 22 years
    Nadeem Badshah
    November 19 2018, 12:01am, The Times
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    Zholia Alemi falsely claimed to have a degree from the University of Auckland and tried to defraud a widow out of £1.3 million
    Background checks are being carried out on 3,000 foreign doctors working in the NHS after a fraudster was allowed to work as a consultant psychiatrist for 22 years.
    Zholia Alemi was jailed last month after being found guilty at Carlisle crown court of defrauding a dementia patient in her care.
    Alemi claimed that she had a degree from the University of Auckland in New Zealand when she arrived in Britain in 1992. However, it has emerged that she dropped out of her medical course after failing the first year.
    Alemi, 56, concluded after one meeting in 2016 that Gillian Belham, now 87, did not require treatment and hatched a plan to defraud the widow of her £1.3 million estate.


    22 years working for the nhs
    who is in charge of doing background checks
     
    #23521
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    why is it so hard to control immigration
    esp the non eu/non freedom of movement immigration
     
    #23522
  3. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Dunno where to begin. Perhaps tell me why the maths is wrong. Are you saying we don't bring in population for a city the size of Birmingham every 3 years? And tell me how many countries on earth have a denser population than England (particularly the south east)? Not many. It's ok for you, you have a nice holiday chateau in France where you can escape to, in uncrowded countryside. France is a country THREE TIMES the size of the UK, yet the population is the same. And what about maintaining the environment in the UK? Species are becoming extinct because we're concreting over fields, filling in ponds, cutting down trees to accommodate more people. Our immigration policy has to lead to a sustainable population level.
     
    #23523
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
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  4. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    “If [federation] is the idea, [it means] the end of Britain as an independent European state.
    It means the end of 1,000 years of history.
    You may say: "Let it end."
    But, my goodness, it is a decision that needs a little care and thought.”
    Hugh Gaitskell, #Labour leader, 1962.
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    #23524
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  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    75% of doctors struck-off in the UK are foreign trained.
     
    #23525
  6. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Furious Barnier reveals MAY asked for customs union as EU gets blamed for constraining UK
    MICHEL Barnier has hit back at suggestions he has bullied Britain during the Brexit negotiations, insisting Theresa May asked for a future relationship to be based on a bare bones customs union.
    By Joe Barnes, Brussels Correspondent
    PUBLISHED: 10:43, Mon, Nov 19, 2018 | UPDATED: 18:11, Mon, Nov 19, 2018
    Barnier suggests UK and EU agree on post-Brexit trade rules
    Barnier suggests UK and EU agree on post-Brexit trade rules
    Michel Barnier said: 'If you compare the guidance issued by European Council and the white paper from chequers, there’s a free trade area... the minimum point of departure if you like'.

    The European Union's chief negotatior rebuked claims that he has provoked London by allowing the political declaration to push for a single customs territory to become the "basis for the future relationship". Mr Barnier told reporters in Brussels that the Prime Minister, through her contraversial Chequers plan, was the one to set out the request for a deal based on a customs union. He said: "If you compare the guidance issued by European Council and the white paper from chequers, there’s a free trade area... the minimum point of departure if you like."
    Mr Barnier said the EU had made a compromise moving towards a "single customs area" at the request of Mrs May as a solution for the vexed issue of the Irish backstop, the insurance policy to prevent a hard border on Ireland.
    This policy is expected to be used as a "baseline" for the future trading partnership, which will be negotiated during the 21-month transition period starting on March 29 2019.
    He said: "The arrangement or agreement reached with Theresa May’s Government on a single customs area is something on which we have moved in the UK’s direction for first proposal of a backstop, I have taken in requests for a UK-wide backstop from the UK side."
    Mr Barnier also urged rebel Brexiteer MPs within Mrs May's Government to accept the terms agreed in the withdrawal agreement.

    Brexit news: Michel Barnier says Theresa May requested controversial future trade plans (Image: EbS)
    He said: “The EU and the U.K. will have full control over their legislation and rule-making.
    “This is essential on our side for the integrity of the single market; it's essential for the U.K. in terms of taking back control.”
    Warning off demands for potential changes to the deal, he added: “Now more than ever we must all remain calm – and I will remain calm – and keep our focus on the need for the U.K. to leave the EU in an orderly fashion.”
    Mr Barnier was speaking after briefing EU27 ministers on the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration on the future relationship.
    He largely refused to comment on the key outstanding issue in the withdrawal agreement – the end date for a possible extension to the transition period.
    But he said the EU27 had given him permission to ensure the "20XX" date is filled in ahead of the special Brexit summit on Sunday.
    Mr Barnier said: "I believe that all the governments have agreed to principle of possible extension but no decision has been made yet on this issue.
    "I think it’s rather sensible to keep the possibility of a one-off extension for a short period of time but no decision has been made yet I haven’t seen any."
    Yesterday, EU diplomats revealed he had pitched the possibility of December 30 2022 to be the end date of the proposed extension but this must still be agreed with the UK.
    Brexit: May's deal is a 'practical non-starter' says Paterson
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    Brexit: May's deal is a 'practical non-starter' says Paterson
    Conservative MP Owen Paterson describes Theresa May's deal as a 'practical non-starter.' He says he has spoken to experts who say the customs arrangement in Chequers is 'unworkable.'
    One EU diplomat said the decision will likely be taken for Thursday, when aides for the EU's heads of state meet to finalise plans for the Sunday summit.
    Mrs May is expected to visit Brussels ahead of the gathering with EU leaders to finalise the political declaration and withdrawal agreement.
    She will lead during a critical week of negotiations to ensure “we do get that final good deal for this country”.
    “It’s the future relationship that actually delivers, if you like, on people’s concerns in the withdrawal agreement,” she added.

    Michel Barnier declares Brexit deal allows UK to 'take back control' in dig at Brexiteers (Image: EbS)
    Former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab, in an interview with the Sunday Times, urged Mrs May to "stand up to Brussels bullies" after resigning his position in opposition to elements of the Prime Minister's divorce package.
    The Prime Minister has allowed Britain to be “blackmailed and bullied” by Brussels, he warned.
    "There were certainly swirling dark forces in the Commission, which you would hear rumbling that Northern Ireland was the price the United Kingdom must pay for leaving the EU," he added on his time spent in Brussels.
    “That’s totally irresponsible and reckless and not something we should give in to. The EU has become incredibly controlling and I think that’s a sign of their insecurity as an organisation.”
    Brexit: No room for renegotiating says Herman Van Rompuy
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    Brexit: No room for renegotiating says Herman Van Rompuy
    Former European Council President, Herman Van Rompuy, has said that there is 'almost no room for renogotiating' the Brexit deal. Speaking on Radio 4, he said: 'The deal is as it is. I will not say take it or leave it but it is close to that reality'.
    Britain will be afforded little time to revisit the negotiating table on the withdrawal agreement, which Mrs May has been urged to do by Brexiteers MPs.
    Belgium’s foreign minister Didier Reynders said: “It's the best after so many months of negotiation and I'm sure that now we need to go further.
    “Here it will survive. We are waiting to the same situation in London but here in Brussels it will survive.”
    Austrian Europe minister Gernot Blumen said: “I expect that the divorce contract as it is on the table now will also be passed.
    “We've had long months of difficult and intense negotiations and therefore I expect that what is on the table now will also be agreed upon.”
    On Mrs May’s political instability, he added: “Of course, I hope that everyone supports what has been negotiated.
    “We have given Michel Barnier clear negotiation guidelines and the agreement we now have was created with this in mind.
    “I believe it is the best possible compromise, both sides have made compromises and therefore I hope that it will be agreed on by both sides.”
    Germany's Europe minister Michael Roth said:"No deal better than the one on the table can be reached."
    Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said:"Any deal is better than no deal.
    "I think that it's in the interests of the United Kingdom and the European Union, that this deal becomes reality."
    He added: "I think the challenge now is for thesedogmatists to show whether that is true.
    "I think Theresa May deserves praise for her position. 'No deal is better than a bad deal' has disappeared. 'Any deal is better than no deal' is now the slogan. That is right.
    "This deal that is now on the table is the best there is. There is no better deal for this ."
     
    #23526
  7. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    That will be like reinventing the wheel
     
    #23527
  8. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Granted all you have said is correct
    France is my home by the way it’s my design and choice

    We have on average 130k people leave the UK each year for pastures new
    We also have around 600k die each year
    But I take your point respectfully we allow a lot of people into our country or better put people find their way into our country and when the bad maths is done the sum shows a massive increase

    I am certain they don’t actually know what the population is and certainly don’t have a clue of the breakdown. Where you aware that you can buy a UK passport really easily?

    Of course our services and systems cannot cope I totally agree and no sure anyone could disagree because it’s in our faces everywhere

    To make that into a major political statement to influence a vote however was and is bad maths

    Housing Crisis for example did anyone know that their are plenty of empty houses in the UK on the whole? There are many in London of course where this awful trend started

    There are plenty of second or third homes in the UK. I am guilty of being involved in that in the UK hands up ... but I am doing my part because I know I and my partner are wrong so a Kingston property now houses a family in need instead of us making money out of students as we used to do ... it’s a takes a hypocrite to fully understand what is what but the reward is honestly

    Birmingham is an area it a lot bigger in real terms than you base your maths on

    Cities grow they always will

    Infrastructure in the UK does not grow in any ratio to the way populations do that could be managed like the French etc

    There is plenty of space in the UK for expansion

    Have a look out of any aeroplane next time you are in the air
     
    #23528
  9. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    I have not read the article but will have a good look. :emoticon-0148-yes:
    In other news... it was reported that the 27 were united however tonight Spain is kicking off about Gibraltar. Also... and this was the best bit “EU countries want garuntees in writing that the deal would never allow Britain to have a competitive economic advantage over them post Brexit”. <yikes> Yeah right with that.
    I wonder what our resident remainers have to say about that?
     
    #23529
  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Can you post the link to that? Could mean any number of things. If it means a future trade deal would include a level playing field between trading partners (us and the EU) I kind of understand it. If it means the UK can’t do anything to gain an advantage in trading with 3rd parties, not feasible.
     
    #23530

  11. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Spain demands Gibraltar veto in Brexit deal
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    Brexit could have big implications for Gibraltar, which gave the highest vote to remain in the EU referendum.

    Brexit could have big implications for Gibraltar which gave the highest vote to remain in the EU referendum.
    Spain has said it will not agree to the draft Brexit withdrawal deal without clarity over how talks on the future status of Gibraltar should be handled.
    Foreign minister Josep Borrell insisted that talks about the territory were "separate negotiations".
    The country will not agree to the draft deal until that is clarified, he said following a meeting with EU ministers.
    Spain maintains a claim to Gibraltar, which was ceded to the British crown under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht.
    Throughout the Brexit negotiations, Spain - along with Ireland and Cyprus - has conducted separate talks with the UK about specific border issues.
    Gibraltar's Chief Minister Fabian Picardo tweeted a statement about Spain's comments, saying their position "does little to build mutual confidence and trust going forward".
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    Image Copyright @FabianPicardo @FabianPicardo

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    Article 184 of the draft Brexit deal says the EU and the UK will seek to "negotiate rapidly the agreements governing their future relationship" between the official day of withdrawal on 29 March 2019 and the end of a transition period in December 2020.
    But Spain insists on its future right to discuss the status of the peninsula bilaterally with the UK, and is seeking clarity that this draft deal will allow it to do so.
    A spokesperson for UK Prime Minister Theresa May meanwhile said the draft deal covers Gibraltar as well as "the other overseas territories and the crown dependencies".
    "We will get a deal that works for the whole UK family."
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    Image copyright Getty Images
    Image caption Gibraltar is an important UK military base
    Spain ceded the peninsula to the British Crown under the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht, but has tried several times to recapture it.
    A referendum in the territory in 1967 saw 99.6% of residents vote to remain British.
    Spain soon after closed its border with Gibraltar and did not fully reopen it until 1985, the year before Spain joined the European Economic Community - the forerunner of the EU
     
    #23531
  12. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Spain is being opportunistic. It will never happen. Just ell them if they keep complaining we will ban holidays to Ibiza/Majorica/Mallorca/Costa del/Tenerife for a year and Spain would be broke. I won't even mention Catalonia.
     
    #23532
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  13. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Good give it back to them
    It’s full of British tax dodgers anyway and it’s a **** hole
     
    #23533
  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for late reply I was watching The Walking Dead (Theresa May's cabinet) :emoticon-0100-smile
    The quote was from SkyNews. Not sure what it was fully as only caught the end but believe it was regarding the deal...Which is a bit silly.
    Anyway, we now have Spain kicking off and you can add France who wants access to our waters. Barnier is now worried as he wants TM deal to work but now they don't seem united as they say...I reckon we could see some movement on a better deal (free trade) and with a bit of luck scrap chequers.
     
    #23534
  15. Turkish" Premier" Hoops

    Turkish" Premier" Hoops Well-Known Member

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    You really are an anti British europhile clown.
     
    #23535
  16. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    While that is probably true, he’s got a point about Gib.

    I’d say it’s worth seeing though for anyone who hasn’t been. Lots of fish and chip shops.
     
    #23536
  17. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I see Government Ministers are throwing themselves into project fear mark two, telling us that no deal will result in Armageddon and that the ONLY choice now is this botched deal. Otherwise they're threatening to not implement the referendum result to avoid a no deal.

    As I said all along, the ruling classes are fudging the result.

    Democracy my arse!!

    This is, by a very long country mile, the worst era for a lack of any quality politicians of all colours in my adult life. Shower of ****s, the lot of 'em!
     
    #23537
  18. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    If they throw the whole thing out it will be the first bit of backbone we’ve seen from them for years.
     
    #23538
  19. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    We certainly won't ever agree on whether Brexit itself was/is a good thing. However, if as you say, you think a soft Brexit is the best path forward from the mess we're in, we can certainly agree upon that.
     
    #23539
  20. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    You would expect the government to dictate where I can go on holiday? Seriously?
    from what I understand from the news this morning the French want access to our waters in a trade for allowing us to sell our fish to the EU tariff free, the Spanish want the ability to discuss Gibraltar directly with us, not through a larger agreement and a couple of countries are keen to get a ‘level playing field’ within the future trade agreement (eg we couldn’t give government support to an industry or company that EU governments aren’t allowed to give to theirs). The Germans are telling them all to shut up and get the Withdrawal Agreement done.

    I reckon the future trade agreement stuff will be much more complicated to negotiate than the withdrawal agreement because that is where different interests of the 27 will come out. It’s why it took nearly a decade for the EU to do the Canada and Japan treaties. Though don’t worry about what I think, Peter Lilley (remember him?) has just been on the wireless saying the deal will take 10 minutes, because we are already aligned on tariffs and regulations with the EU. Well, yes Peter, it will take 10 minutes if we also accept all the rules that being in the EU entails (ECJ, social and environmental laws etc) and tie ourselves to them for the future. Which is not I think what Brexit is about. The EU has always approached this stuff as a lose-lose scenario and as a damage limitation exercise, while being clear that the UK leaving has to demonstrate to other members that it’s better to stay in. The UK really has to be in a position where trade with the EU is relatively easy while at the same time being able to agree trade treaties with other major economies quickly and smoothly.

    All irrelevant unless we get the Withdrawal stuff sorted. Also just heard that one consequence of a failure to get it through Parliament could be an extension of the Article 50 deadline for six months/a year, I.e.we stay in the EU for even longer. I wonder if that is what the ERG wants.
     
    #23540

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