Off Topic The Politics Thread
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There's no excuse for that, and actually, I don't believe it, Bob. The referendum campaign went on for many months, and we had it on the media every day and every night. Then there were the debates and the interviews with the political leaders and the question and answer sessions... People were sick of it by the time the referendum took place.
I'm not going to fall into your trap, Goldie. I don't think all Leave voters were mentally impaired. The fact is, though, they were lied to by the Leave campaign and they fell for it. The section I posted above from the 'Project Fear' leaflet is coming true, it seems to me.
There were gross exaggerations on both sides. You cannot just single out Leave, when you think what the Prime Minister (WW3) and the Chancellor (immediate economic calamity) were predicting and using the reports of publicly paid for "experts" to back it up.
This is from the 'Project Fear' leaflet that bc7 posted the link to.....
Voting to leave the EU would create years of uncertainty and potential economic disruption. This would reduce investment and cost jobs. The Government judges it could result in 10 years or more of uncertainty as the UK unpicks our relationship with the EU and renegotiates new arrangements with the EU and over 50 other countries around the world. Some argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with the EU because they want to keep access to our market.
But the Government’s judgement is that it would be much harder than that – less than 8% of EU exports come to the UK while 44% of UK exports go to the EU. No other country has managed to secure significant access to the Single Market, without having to:
• follow EU rules over which they have no real say
• pay into the EU
• accept EU citizens living and working in their country
A more limited trade deal with the EU would give the UK less access to the Single Market than we have now – including for services, which make up almost 80% of the UK economy. For example, Canada’s deal with the EU will give limited access for services, it has so far been seven years in the making and is still not in force.
All coming true isn't it?
On the other hand, no one even pretends any more that the stuff about £350m per week for the NHS, 70 million Turks landing on our doorsteps, or an EU army were anything but lies do they?
I'm pretty sure some (maybe not many) will have voted purely on the 350m bus and the picture of immigrants.
Nothing's coming true. WTO is manageable, and I've heard seasoned economists saying that. But do the EU want tariffs with UK? Hell, no, it damages their industries. Does the UK want tariff?. Hell, no, why would we? So something will be ironed out, even if it's managed WTO. In my view, the likelihood of WTO is incredibly small, and we're beginning to see less brinkmanship coming from the EU now. They've been making us bid against ourselves. Good strategy, when Remain MP's in the UK parliament like Soubry are prepared to play the role of the EU's useful idiots
No, I'm saying that since most people are perfectly sane, they were also able to digest the information that was fed to them day and night for months by Remainers and Leavers. This idea that Cameron called a referendum and we all went to the polls the next day scratching our heads is simply Remain sophistry
I think one thing that the leaflet didn’t go as far as saying would happen, but only hinted at it, was that the EU would put an end to sharing of security information.
The EU has now said that this will happen if we go ahead with leaving. If they really are so seeking revenge on us, how can any intelligent person think that they would welcome us back into the fold without seeking suitable punishments.
Does anybody truly believe that if we now decided to not leave, that all the special arrangements that we have secured would be maintained, or would we rejoin on less favourable terms than when we chose to leave.
I hate to copy & paste but:
https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-security-uk-to-lose-eu-perks/
4. It is widely accepted that England needs more homes. In 2004 the Barker Review concluded that the UK needed to build 260,000 private sector homes a year in order to meet demand and reduce the long-term trend in house prices to 1.1%, the EU average.[2] At the time of writing, official population projections (2002-based) were that the population would increase from 59.2 million in 2002 to 62.1 million by 2016. The population in mid-2016 was in fact 65.6 million, some 3.5 million higher than was projected in 2002 as a result of the significant difference between projected and actual net migration. House building on the scale recommended by the Barker Review did not take place and the total number of new homes completed in England (across all tenures) has averaged only 130,000 a year in the past ten years.[3]
5. As a result of this shortfall in house building, developers, landlords and property investors have benefitted financially while those needing somewhere to live have lost out by being priced out of purchasing a home and from having to bear the costs of higher rents. Young people in particular have been negatively affected with many having to stay longer in shared accommodation or remaining in the family home with their parents.[4] This delay in settling down in their own home can lead to other important life decisions being delayed, such as having children.[5] Others have to move away from their local area to find somewhere affordable or else spend a very substantial proportion of their income on rent.
6. In 2016, the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee investigation into housing again confirmed that the UK needed to build many more homes, at least 300,000 homes a year to meet demand, the majority of which would be needed in England.[6]
Impact of immigration on housing demand
7. In the last ten years (2007-2016) net migration has totalled 2.5 million. The vast majority, 2.3 million, has been to England. Previous Migration Watch UK analysis relating to the UK as a whole found that between 2001 and 2012 around 85% of population growth was due to net migration and births to immigrants.[7]
8. There is a clear link between the heavy demand for housing in England and massive levels of immigration. This link is demonstrated by the growth in households where the head of the household (or HRP – see footnote 1 above) was born abroad. Between 2005 and 2015 the number of households in England with a foreign born HRP rose by nearly 1.1 million, compared with total growth of 1.2 million. More recently, in the last five years (since 2010), there has actually been a fall in the number of households headed by a UK born person with all the growth coming from the foreign born.[8]
not even half the houses needed are being built
5. As a result of this shortfall in house building, developers, landlords and property investors have benefitted financially while those needing somewhere to live have lost out by being priced out of purchasing a home and from having to bear the costs of higher rents. Young people in particular have been negatively affected with many having to stay longer in shared accommodation or remaining in the family home with their parents.[4] This delay in settling down in their own home can lead to other important life decisions being delayed, such as having children.[5] Others have to move away from their local area to find somewhere affordable or else spend a very substantial proportion of their income on rent.
6. In 2016, the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee investigation into housing again confirmed that the UK needed to build many more homes, at least 300,000 homes a year to meet demand, the majority of which would be needed in England.[6]
Impact of immigration on housing demand
7. In the last ten years (2007-2016) net migration has totalled 2.5 million. The vast majority, 2.3 million, has been to England. Previous Migration Watch UK analysis relating to the UK as a whole found that between 2001 and 2012 around 85% of population growth was due to net migration and births to immigrants.[7]
8. There is a clear link between the heavy demand for housing in England and massive levels of immigration. This link is demonstrated by the growth in households where the head of the household (or HRP – see footnote 1 above) was born abroad. Between 2005 and 2015 the number of households in England with a foreign born HRP rose by nearly 1.1 million, compared with total growth of 1.2 million. More recently, in the last five years (since 2010), there has actually been a fall in the number of households headed by a UK born person with all the growth coming from the foreign born.[8]
not even half the houses needed are being built
