Off Topic The Politics Thread

[bobmid]

Not necessarily .The Tories are in power and the Tories dominate the cabinet and number of MPs. Whose fault is it if it isnt the party in power?

Exactly. Bizarre comment from Ellers really

 

[TheBigDipper]

According to the International Corruption Index, we are in fact the 10th least corrupt nation out of 176 rated. They use a recognised analytical process to make this judgement. What evidence do you have to place us at the other end of the spectrum?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Will you just stop it with those inconvenient truths when you should be peddling reassuring lies? (Only kidding... )

 

[rangercol]

By the way, to anyone interested, this book will completely change the way you look at this country:

http://treasureislands.org/the-book/

It won't.

 

[awjm]

According to the International Corruption Index, we are in fact the 10th least corrupt nation out of 176 rated. They use a recognised analytical process to make this judgement. What evidence do you have to place us at the other end of the spectrum?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

My reasoning is that although this country isn’t perfect (far from it) and that I agree, there is corruption that takes place wilfully......to say that it is worse here than most, if not all countries in Africa, South and Central America is quite honestly ludicrous.

It all depends on what one bases it on. Naturally, in a world where capitalism and so called democracy are trumpeted as the way to the fairest society, of course we will look at those poor old countries in, for example, Africa as "terribly corrupt" and say "oh, look at how much of a mess those countries are. They have only themselves to blame." etc, etc. And we will turn to our own country and say we have a wonderful, fair voting system and a free press, etc.

Yet the majority of those poor old African countries is that a majority of them have been part of a large Western empires or colonial holds. When they were given independence by the wonderful and just Western nations those nations installed corrupt political systems and sets of officials that would ensure corrupt access to the resources in those countries.

Let me give another example: Two people smoke marijuana publicly. They both perform the one, same action. One of them does it in a country where you can do that legally, another does it in a country where you cannot. One is a criminal, the other is not.

Likewise, you have to look at what is good and right, and what is not. And you have to look at the level of impact on the world.

I'll give one example on that. The revolving door in Britain. A politician can have a position of power in which he/she can facilitate the giving out of lucrative contracts or changing of law and then, when he or she steps down for the role, goes to work for the company or sector that has benefitted from those actions. Our regulations on that are absolutely shoddy and even when they are broken, the regulator is weak and takes no action. There are countless cases upon cases of this, even this year. And yet... as far as the stats go, there is no corruption there... no law was broken, no harm caused?

And then you have to consider how much harm comes. London is the biggest financial centre in the world and, furthermore, is a centre point of the biggest web of tax havens in the world, having connections with the other tax havens to boot. The amount of money that flows through London is immense. Billions of units of corrupt, illicit, dirty money flows through. I'm talking about money from illicit arms sales, drugs, gangs, corrupt regimes and representatives hiding money and money being pilfered out of poor countries. This has a huge effect on the state of the world at large. Yet, because of our regulations, this is legal. We are not considered corrupt.

Then take into consideration our global military actions. Are they corrupt? Are they justifiable? What impact do they have on the world? How many lives do they affect?

A poor old, ropey country in Africa may be corrupt but it's blatantly corrupt and doesn't have that great an effect on the rest of the world.

I could go on...

So it all depends how you weigh it up.

Furthermore, there's something you may have missed on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International#Internal_scandals

And the fact that Switzerland is one of the least corrupt countries on that list is laughable.

The difference between my judgement and that list... mine is based on well founded morals. That list is based on criteria cooked up by corporates.

 

[awjm]

The bloke who wrote this, Nicholas Shaxson, doesn’t understand his own arguments. He loves countries like Finland, Sweden and Denmark, which do very well on the corruption index and aren’t considered tax havens. They are indeed progressive places and there is much to be admired in them. But they compete for international financial business as much as anywhere else and they don’t tax business or capital very highly. They tax people instead. Which I have no problem with.

I didn't say he or the book are perfect. He has made a study and an attempt at exposing something and it's foundations. I think he does a pretty comprehensive job. You can always find faults in the works of writers and academics but most of what is in the book is undeniable.

 

[Staines R's]

It all depends on what one bases it on. Naturally, in a world where capitalism and so called democracy are trumpeted as the way to the fairest society, of course we will look at those poor old countries in, for example, Africa as "terribly corrupt" and say "oh, look at how much of a mess those countries are. They have only themselves to blame." etc, etc. And we will turn to our own country and say we have a wonderful, fair voting system and a free press, etc.

Yet the majority of those poor old African countries is that a majority of them have been part of a large Western empires or colonial holds. When they were given independence by the wonderful and just Western nations those nations installed corrupt political systems and sets of officials that would ensure corrupt access to the resources in those countries.

Let me give another example: Two people smoke marijuana publicly. They both perform the one, same action. One of them does it in a country where you can do that legally, another does it in a country where you cannot. One is a criminal, the other is not.

Likewise, you have to look at what is good and right, and what is not. And you have to look at the level of impact on the world.

I'll give one example on that. The revolving door in Britain. A politician can have a position of power in which he/she can facilitate the giving out of lucrative contracts or changing of law and then, when he or she steps down for the role, goes to work for the company or sector that has benefitted from those actions. Our regulations on that are absolutely shoddy and even when they are broken, the regulator is weak and takes no action. There are countless cases upon cases of this, even this year. And yet... as far as the stats go, there is no corruption there... no law was broken, no harm caused?

And then you have to consider how much harm comes. London is the biggest financial centre in the world and, furthermore, is a centre point of the biggest web of tax havens in the world, having connections with the other tax havens to boot. The amount of money that flows through London is immense. Billions of units of corrupt, illicit, dirty money flows through. I'm talking about money from illicit arms sales, drugs, gangs, corrupt regimes and representatives hiding money and money being pilfered out of poor countries. This has a huge effect on the state of the world at large. Yet, because of our regulations, this is legal. We are not considered corrupt.

Then take into consideration our global military actions. Are they corrupt? Are they justifiable? What impact do they have on the world? How many lives do they affect?

A poor old, ropey country in Africa may be corrupt but it's blatantly corrupt and doesn't have that great an effect on the rest of the world.

I could go on...

So it all depends how you weigh it up.

Furthermore, there's something you may have missed on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International#Internal_scandals

And the fact that Switzerland is one of the least corrupt countries on that list is laughable.

The difference between my judgement and that list... mine is based on well founded morals. That list is based on criteria cooked up by corporates.

So are you saying that this country is more corrupt than most countries in Africa ?

 

[awjm]

So are you saying that this country is more corrupt than most countries in Africa ?

I'm saying that if you take into consideration the effect on the world, the scope of that effect and the fact that law and regulation is set in such a way that would allow immoral activities to pass as legal, then yes. We are a population that have been given far more rights than other places in the world. That doesn't mean that we aren't equally taken advantage of.

 

[BobbyD]

It all depends on what one bases it on. Naturally, in a world where capitalism and so called democracy are trumpeted as the way to the fairest society, of course we will look at those poor old countries in, for example, Africa as "terribly corrupt" and say "oh, look at how much of a mess those countries are. They have only themselves to blame." etc, etc. And we will turn to our own country and say we have a wonderful, fair voting system and a free press, etc.

Yet the majority of those poor old African countries is that a majority of them have been part of a large Western empires or colonial holds. When they were given independence by the wonderful and just Western nations those nations installed corrupt political systems and sets of officials that would ensure corrupt access to the resources in those countries.

Let me give another example: Two people smoke marijuana publicly. They both perform the one, same action. One of them does it in a country where you can do that legally, another does it in a country where you cannot. One is a criminal, the other is not.

Likewise, you have to look at what is good and right, and what is not. And you have to look at the level of impact on the world.

I'll give one example on that. The revolving door in Britain. A politician can have a position of power in which he/she can facilitate the giving out of lucrative contracts or changing of law and then, when he or she steps down for the role, goes to work for the company or sector that has benefitted from those actions. Our regulations on that are absolutely shoddy and even when they are broken, the regulator is weak and takes no action. There are countless cases upon cases of this, even this year. And yet... as far as the stats go, there is no corruption there... no law was broken, no harm caused?

And then you have to consider how much harm comes. London is the biggest financial centre in the world and, furthermore, is a centre point of the biggest web of tax havens in the world, having connections with the other tax havens to boot. The amount of money that flows through London is immense. Billions of units of corrupt, illicit, dirty money flows through. I'm talking about money from illicit arms sales, drugs, gangs, corrupt regimes and representatives hiding money and money being pilfered out of poor countries. This has a huge effect on the state of the world at large. Yet, because of our regulations, this is legal. We are not considered corrupt.

Then take into consideration our global military actions. Are they corrupt? Are they justifiable? What impact do they have on the world? How many lives do they affect?

A poor old, ropey country in Africa may be corrupt but it's blatantly corrupt and doesn't have that great an effect on the rest of the world.

I could go on...

So it all depends how you weigh it up.

Furthermore, there's something you may have missed on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International#Internal_scandals

And the fact that Switzerland is one of the least corrupt countries on that list is laughable.

The difference between my judgement and that list... mine is based on well founded morals. That list is based on criteria cooked up by corporates.

That is a fair argument. Think you need to weight things a bit more though. Things like going against the government here won't mean you end up in a grave but you do make good points

 

[BobbyD]

It all depends on what one bases it on. Naturally, in a world where capitalism and so called democracy are trumpeted as the way to the fairest society, of course we will look at those poor old countries in, for example, Africa as "terribly corrupt" and say "oh, look at how much of a mess those countries are. They have only themselves to blame." etc, etc. And we will turn to our own country and say we have a wonderful, fair voting system and a free press, etc.

Yet the majority of those poor old African countries is that a majority of them have been part of a large Western empires or colonial holds. When they were given independence by the wonderful and just Western nations those nations installed corrupt political systems and sets of officials that would ensure corrupt access to the resources in those countries.

Let me give another example: Two people smoke marijuana publicly. They both perform the one, same action. One of them does it in a country where you can do that legally, another does it in a country where you cannot. One is a criminal, the other is not.

Likewise, you have to look at what is good and right, and what is not. And you have to look at the level of impact on the world.

I'll give one example on that. The revolving door in Britain. A politician can have a position of power in which he/she can facilitate the giving out of lucrative contracts or changing of law and then, when he or she steps down for the role, goes to work for the company or sector that has benefitted from those actions. Our regulations on that are absolutely shoddy and even when they are broken, the regulator is weak and takes no action. There are countless cases upon cases of this, even this year. And yet... as far as the stats go, there is no corruption there... no law was broken, no harm caused?

And then you have to consider how much harm comes. London is the biggest financial centre in the world and, furthermore, is a centre point of the biggest web of tax havens in the world, having connections with the other tax havens to boot. The amount of money that flows through London is immense. Billions of units of corrupt, illicit, dirty money flows through. I'm talking about money from illicit arms sales, drugs, gangs, corrupt regimes and representatives hiding money and money being pilfered out of poor countries. This has a huge effect on the state of the world at large. Yet, because of our regulations, this is legal. We are not considered corrupt.

Then take into consideration our global military actions. Are they corrupt? Are they justifiable? What impact do they have on the world? How many lives do they affect?

A poor old, ropey country in Africa may be corrupt but it's blatantly corrupt and doesn't have that great an effect on the rest of the world.

I could go on...

So it all depends how you weigh it up.

Furthermore, there's something you may have missed on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International#Internal_scandals

And the fact that Switzerland is one of the least corrupt countries on that list is laughable.

The difference between my judgement and that list... mine is based on well founded morals. That list is based on criteria cooked up by corporates.

That is a fair argument. Think you need to weight things a bit more though. Things like going against the government here won't mean you end up in a grave but you do make some good points

 

[ELLERS]

Of course it's anti tory. Who else is in charge of brexit in our country???

Bob you don't have to listen to me or anyone else but seriously think about it fella. Agree the Tories are part of the blame but they are only one part that makes up the whole thing. You need to incorporate more than just them.

 

[Staines R's]

I'm saying that if you take into consideration the effect on the world, the scope of that effect and the fact that law and regulation is set in such a way that would allow immoral activities to pass as legal, then yes. We are a population that have been given far more rights than other places in the world. That doesn't mean that we aren't equally taken advantage of.

Bizarre

 

[ELLERS]

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[bobmid]

Bob you don't have to listen to me or anyone else but seriously think about it fella. Agree the Tories are part of the blame but they are only one part that makes up the whole thing. You need to incorporate more than just them.

It's a total **** up and just seems totally pointless now mate.

 

[ELLERS]

It's a total **** up and just seems totally pointless now mate.

Totally agree mate. We can all bore each other to death but I doubt it will matter.

 

[bobmid]

Totally agree mate. We can all bore each other to death but I doubt it will matter.

Ha it is becoming bloody tedious. Roll on the new season mate

 

[UTRs]

Here is a picture of Michael Gove waring his QPR scarf to cheer you all up...

You must log in or register to see images

 

[ELLERS]

Ha it is becoming bloody tedious. Roll on the new season mate

Amen to that.

 

[kiwiqpr]

tut tut
what a terrible time the families must be having
where do we send our thoughts and prayers

Sinn Féin slam attacks on homes of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey
14 July, 2018 - by Gerry Kelly
Facebook Google+ Twitter
Sinn Féin Policing and Justice Spokesperson Gerry Kelly has slammed those responsible for attacks on the homes this evening of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey.
The North Belfast MLA was speaking after two explosive devices, one of which caused damage to a car, were thrown tonight.
Gerry Kelly said: “These were reprehensible and cowardly attacks on the family homes of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey. Grandchildren were in the driveway of Adams' home minutes before the attack.
“I would appeal for calm. These attacks are the desperate acts of increasingly desperate and irrelevant groups.”

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

tut tut
what a terrible time the families must be having
where do we send our thoughts and prayers

Sinn Féin slam attacks on homes of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey
14 July, 2018 - by Gerry Kelly
Facebook Google+ Twitter
Sinn Féin Policing and Justice Spokesperson Gerry Kelly has slammed those responsible for attacks on the homes this evening of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey.
The North Belfast MLA was speaking after two explosive devices, one of which caused damage to a car, were thrown tonight.
Gerry Kelly said: “These were reprehensible and cowardly attacks on the family homes of Gerry Adams and Bobby Storey. Grandchildren were in the driveway of Adams' home minutes before the attack.
“I would appeal for calm. These attacks are the desperate acts of increasingly desperate and irrelevant groups.”

Live by the sword...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Here is a picture of Michael Gove waring his QPR scarf to cheer you all up...

You must log in or register to see images

I see he's got the Manu one in his jacket pocket