Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Now, now!

No, well done for trying to do your bit. It is sobering to see just how many people will hurry by under such circumstances. There was a European hidden camera vid doing the rounds a while back where a chap pretended to collapse in the street to see how many people walked on by rather than assist. Sadly, a good many choose not to get involved.

You now know into which category you sit.

It was the ‘lol’ from a man of your erudition that got me.

You’d have to be spectacularly sociopathic or I suppose terrified to walk past a weeping and wailing couple asking for your help.

It’s hitting the local news websites now, apparently the chap was in his forties and suspected cardiac arrest. No mention of the dashing stranger and his loyal hound’s role though. Good.

 

[QPR999]

I thought that would get a response. Yes, an actual human corpse. I was walking the dog round the very lovely Jephson Gardens in the middle of Leamington Spa, when an hysterical and youngish Eastern European couple begged me to call an ambulance for their friend - a bloke, probably thirties, crashed in sleeping bag on a bench. To be honest I would have walked right by him if they hadn’t been there. So called the ambulance and they asked me to do chest compressions, which was quite tricky as I had the phone pressed to my ear, the dog on a lead and I had to get him off the bench onto his back and he was a big bloke, nobody helped - his friends were too hysterical (and I suspect knew it was pointless) and the 3 or 4 other people around were happy to stare from 20 yards away, but not to help, not even to hold the dog when I asked. My CPR skills are rusty at best, but the emergency caller was talking me through, even though the bloke was obviously dead, thankfully Stainsey’s mob arrived before mouth to mouth was required.

They took over and I walked the dog on, passing Roberto Di Matteo shouting into a phone and smoking furiously on the other side of the park (his daughter goes to school with mine and they are big mates, I’ve met him briefly a couple of times, we exchanged nods), and completed the circuit back to the scene of the incident. Now two sets of paramedics and lots of police there. I made myself known to them in case they had any questions, but they were just rather flattering, saying most people wouldn’t have got involved, and that CPR has to be tried. Bloke was definitively dead, his mates (who were jogging in the park) had been talking to him half an hour before, but he had booze problems.

I feel surprisingly calm and detached from it. I saw a lot of corpses as a hospital porter (Northwick Park) shifting them to the mortuary (the training, and psychological fitness assessment for this in 1980 was ‘you ok to do this?’) and seeing lots of half finished autopsies in the process. A dead body is an object, I quickly learned, not a person. I would have liked someone to have at least tried to help shift him though, I’m not a young man myself.

That’s enough drama for today.

Well done for trying mate. I always found that unless someone witnessed the patient having a medical event your efforts are usually fruitless. A blue heart won't start and all that, even if you have a defibrilator close to hand. I was ok doing this stuff when I was on duty because you're in the mindset and expect it to be a possibility at any incident you go to.

I had to do this once as a civvy when I was driving down the road and saw a gathering of seven or eight people standing around a man who had collapsed in New Malden. I got out of the car and soon realised that no one was prepared to do anything. An experience similar to yours. I had to turn him over and commence CPR as he had no pulse and wasn't breathing. It was two ventilation's to fifteen compression's back then. ( I think it's 30/2 now. ) Thankfully the paramedics turned up after five minutes and took over. I received a call from the police that afternoon thanking me for my efforts but the man had died, which I sadly knew would be the case. This was the only time I've had to do mouth to mouth and it's a horrible experience. When you had to do it in the brigade you could use your oxygen kit and you have members of your team to assist you. Out in civvy street you're usually on your own.

What I noticed on this occasion and a few others is that hardly anyone wants to get involved in these situations and people just seem to freeze. Perhaps basic first aid training should be part of the school curriculum.

 

[sb_73]

Well done for trying mate. I always found that unless someone witnessed the patient having a medical event your efforts are usually fruitless. A blue heart won't start and all that, even if you have a defibrilator close to hand. I was ok doing this stuff when I was on duty because you're in the mindset and expect it to be a possibility at any incident you go to.

I had to do this once as a civvy when I was driving down the road and saw a gathering of seven or eight people standing around a man who had collapsed in New Malden. I got out of the car and soon realised that no one was prepared to do anything. An experience similar to yours. I had to turn him over and commence CPR as he had no pulse and wasn't breathing. It was two ventilation's to fifteen compression's back then. ( I think it's 30/2 now. ) Thankfully the paramedics turned up after five minutes and took over. I received a call from the police that afternoon thanking me for my efforts but the man had died, which I sadly knew would be the case. This was the only time I've had to do mouth to mouth and it's a horrible experience. When you had to do it in the brigade you could use your oxygen kit and you have members of your team to assist you. Out in civvy street you're usually on your own.

What I noticed on this occasion and a few others is that hardly anyone wants to get involved in these situations and people just seem to freeze. Perhaps basic first aid training should be part of the school curriculum.

Oddly enough, my basic training from an FA coaching course about 15 years ago probably gave me the confidence to at least give it a go. I must admit I was dreading the call handler saying ‘time for ventilation’ but thankfully the paramedics turned up before that.

Seeing (unimportant) fake news developing before my eyes - the local rags have two different timelines (both wrong) and one confidently claims that the ambulance was called to assist a man ‘undergoing a cardiac arrest’. Er, no, I made the call, he had undergone a cardiac arrest, it was already all over. Apparently the police tape has already been removed, there’s probably someone sitting on the bench where this bloke died right now, in total ignorance of the days events.

And ten minutes ago my daughters driving instructor claimed to have known the deceased, or at least the deceased’s brother, saying that he was an Italian heroin addict, and ‘it’s all over Facebook’. So a web of unintentionally misleading bullshit spreads.....

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Well done for trying mate. I always found that unless someone witnessed the patient having a medical event your efforts are usually fruitless. A blue heart won't start and all that, even if you have a defibrilator close to hand. I was ok doing this stuff when I was on duty because you're in the mindset and expect it to be a possibility at any incident you go to.

I had to do this once as a civvy when I was driving down the road and saw a gathering of seven or eight people standing around a man who had collapsed in New Malden. I got out of the car and soon realised that no one was prepared to do anything. An experience similar to yours. I had to turn him over and commence CPR as he had no pulse and wasn't breathing. It was two ventilation's to fifteen compression's back then. ( I think it's 30/2 now. ) Thankfully the paramedics turned up after five minutes and took over. I received a call from the police that afternoon thanking me for my efforts but the man had died, which I sadly knew would be the case. This was the only time I've had to do mouth to mouth and it's a horrible experience. When you had to do it in the brigade you could use your oxygen kit and you have members of your team to assist you. Out in civvy street you're usually on your own.

What I noticed on this occasion and a few others is that hardly anyone wants to get involved in these situations and people just seem to freeze. Perhaps basic first aid training should be part of the school curriculum.

I agree, first aid should be a part of the curriculum, along with better teaching of politics, money and current world affairs. All these things will be part of kids lives, arguably more than cloud types, periodic tables and Pythagoras, so teach them.

 

[Staines R's]

I thought that would get a response. Yes, an actual human corpse. I was walking the dog round the very lovely Jephson Gardens in the middle of Leamington Spa, when an hysterical and youngish Eastern European couple begged me to call an ambulance for their friend - a bloke, probably thirties, crashed in sleeping bag on a bench. To be honest I would have walked right by him if they hadn’t been there. So called the ambulance and they asked me to do chest compressions, which was quite tricky as I had the phone pressed to my ear, the dog on a lead and I had to get him off the bench onto his back and he was a big bloke, nobody helped - his friends were too hysterical (and I suspect knew it was pointless) and the 3 or 4 other people around were happy to stare from 20 yards away, but not to help, not even to hold the dog when I asked. My CPR skills are rusty at best, but the emergency caller was talking me through, even though the bloke was obviously dead, thankfully Stainsey’s mob arrived before mouth to mouth was required.

They took over and I walked the dog on, passing Roberto Di Matteo shouting into a phone and smoking furiously on the other side of the park (his daughter goes to school with mine and they are big mates, I’ve met him briefly a couple of times, we exchanged nods), and completed the circuit back to the scene of the incident. Now two sets of paramedics and lots of police there. I made myself known to them in case they had any questions, but they were just rather flattering, saying most people wouldn’t have got involved, and that CPR has to be tried. Bloke was definitively dead, his mates (who were jogging in the park) had been talking to him half an hour before, but he had booze problems.

I feel surprisingly calm and detached from it. I saw a lot of corpses as a hospital porter (Northwick Park) shifting them to the mortuary (the training, and psychological fitness assessment for this in 1980 was ‘you ok to do this?’) and seeing lots of half finished autopsies in the process. A dead body is an object, I quickly learned, not a person. I would have liked someone to have at least tried to help shift him though, I’m not a young man myself.

That’s enough drama for today.

Bloody hell mate, well done.
I’ve found that most people in that situation do indeed walk on by.....and when they do get on with chest compressions, they are pretty ineffective ‘cos people don’t push hard enough in fear of breaking a rib or two of the patient.
I’m working nights all week and if I get something anywhere near as exciting I’ll be happy.....beats the usual ‘grannies on the floor’ that is our bread and butter

 

[sb_73]

Bloody hell mate, well done.
I’ve found that most people in that situation do indeed walk on by.....and when they do get on with chest compressions, they are pretty ineffective ‘cos people don’t push hard enough in fear of breaking a rib or two of the patient.
I’m working nights all week and if I get something anywhere near as exciting I’ll be happy.....beats the usual ‘grannies on the floor’ that is our bread and butter

Pushing really hard was one thing I do remember from the ancient course I took, as the paramedic who ran it said, ‘you are not going to get sued for breaking a rib if you save a life’. In this case I don’t think a full crash team and the machine that goes ‘bing’ would have made a difference.

 

[Stroller]

Johnson has gone now, so it looks like a leadership challenge is on it's way.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Johnson has gone now, so it looks like a leadership challenge is on it's way.

Surely the challenge is to identify any form of leadership amongst that group of wallies?

 

[sb_73]

If it ends up with a cabinet just about on the same page and no leadership challenge, or a rapidly crushed one, they might actually be able to get on with things. All eyes on Gove and Dr Fox now. Nobody will care if Leadsom walks.

 

[RichardRanger]

Long-time lurker and very rare contributor but feel compelled to say something.

I voted leave; I don't regret my vote and being an 'professional' late-30-something living in London i have had to put up with a lot of patronising carp over the last few years from my peers. I still feel that the EU is an organisation that needs radical reform, though not the type that people like verhofstadt and macron want. I have long been waiting for the sensible people to come out to play, however it only seems to be getting more ridiculous by the day/hour/minute. The EU aren't interested in being pragmatic ; those in-control are too wedded to their dogma and ideology to wish to do so.

However, as much as it pains me to say this it really is now time to call the whole thing off.

IMO, for those that want to see a brexit of sort, the best course of action is to go back into the fold and just be as difficult as possible, use our veto effectively, and let the other crises take their effect. I feel that we do need to be in somesort of common market with our european neighbours, and that naturally needs alignment and regulation, but it does not need the behemoth that the EU is with a desire for 'ever closer union'.

I await the pelters from both sides!

 

[BobbyD]

Long-time lurker and very rare contributor but feel compelled to say something.

I voted leave; I don't regret my vote and being an 'professional' late-30-something living in London i have had to put up with a lot of patronising carp over the last few years from my peers. I still feel that the EU is an organisation that needs radical reform, though not the type that people like verhofstadt and macron want. I have long been waiting for the sensible people to come out to play, however it only seems to be getting more ridiculous by the day/hour/minute. The EU aren't interested in being pragmatic ; those in-control are too wedded to their dogma and ideology to wish to do so.

However, as much as it pains me to say this it really is now time to call the whole thing off.

IMO, for those that want to see a brexit of sort, the best course of action is to go back into the fold and just be as difficult as possible, use our veto effectively, and let the other crises take their effect. I feel that we do need to be in somesort of common market with our european neighbours, and that naturally needs alignment and regulation, but it does not need the behemoth that the EU is with a desire for 'ever closer union'.

I await the pelters from both sides!

I predicted this mess a while back.

But i wholeheartedly agree with your assessment

 

[qprbeth]

I thought that would get a response. Yes, an actual human corpse. I was walking the dog round the very lovely Jephson Gardens in the middle of Leamington Spa, when an hysterical and youngish Eastern European couple begged me to call an ambulance for their friend - a bloke, probably thirties, crashed in sleeping bag on a bench. To be honest I would have walked right by him if they hadn’t been there. So called the ambulance and they asked me to do chest compressions, which was quite tricky as I had the phone pressed to my ear, the dog on a lead and I had to get him off the bench onto his back and he was a big bloke, nobody helped - his friends were too hysterical (and I suspect knew it was pointless) and the 3 or 4 other people around were happy to stare from 20 yards away, but not to help, not even to hold the dog when I asked. My CPR skills are rusty at best, but the emergency caller was talking me through, even though the bloke was obviously dead, thankfully Stainsey’s mob arrived before mouth to mouth was required.

They took over and I walked the dog on, passing Roberto Di Matteo shouting into a phone and smoking furiously on the other side of the park (his daughter goes to school with mine and they are big mates, I’ve met him briefly a couple of times, we exchanged nods), and completed the circuit back to the scene of the incident. Now two sets of paramedics and lots of police there. I made myself known to them in case they had any questions, but they were just rather flattering, saying most people wouldn’t have got involved, and that CPR has to be tried. Bloke was definitively dead, his mates (who were jogging in the park) had been talking to him half an hour before, but he had booze problems.

I feel surprisingly calm and detached from it. I saw a lot of corpses as a hospital porter (Northwick Park) shifting them to the mortuary (the training, and psychological fitness assessment for this in 1980 was ‘you ok to do this?’) and seeing lots of half finished autopsies in the process. A dead body is an object, I quickly learned, not a person. I would have liked someone to have at least tried to help shift him though, I’m not a young man myself.

That’s enough drama for today.

.all I can say....is you are an absolute hero for trying Stan...not many people would have...as you discovered ...

Well done.....have a stiff drink tonight. You deserve it...


Sent from my STF-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[sb_73]

Long-time lurker and very rare contributor but feel compelled to say something.

I voted leave; I don't regret my vote and being an 'professional' late-30-something living in London i have had to put up with a lot of patronising carp over the last few years from my peers. I still feel that the EU is an organisation that needs radical reform, though not the type that people like verhofstadt and macron want. I have long been waiting for the sensible people to come out to play, however it only seems to be getting more ridiculous by the day/hour/minute. The EU aren't interested in being pragmatic ; those in-control are too wedded to their dogma and ideology to wish to do so.

However, as much as it pains me to say this it really is now time to call the whole thing off.

IMO, for those that want to see a brexit of sort, the best course of action is to go back into the fold and just be as difficult as possible, use our veto effectively, and let the other crises take their effect. I feel that we do need to be in somesort of common market with our european neighbours, and that naturally needs alignment and regulation, but it does not need the behemoth that the EU is with a desire for 'ever closer union'.

I await the pelters from both sides!

Why should you be pelted? Takes a proper person to take a considered view of a situation as things change and decide a different course of action is needed to what they originally thought.

I voted remain but agree with you that the EU has a shedload of issues in addition to Brexit that need sorting, and that we could have been a powerful voice in driving that process. I think we would need a general election or another referendum to stay in though.

 

[Stroller]

Surely the challenge is to identify any form of leadership amongst that group of wallies?

Apparently Dominic Raab has decided not to take up the Brexit Secretary position, so May is going to go for joint-secretaries....

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'To me, to EU'

 

[bobmid]

How bafoon Boris lasted this long is beyond me anyway. Good riddance

 

[Stroller]

Long-time lurker and very rare contributor but feel compelled to say something.

I voted leave; I don't regret my vote and being an 'professional' late-30-something living in London i have had to put up with a lot of patronising carp over the last few years from my peers. I still feel that the EU is an organisation that needs radical reform, though not the type that people like verhofstadt and macron want. I have long been waiting for the sensible people to come out to play, however it only seems to be getting more ridiculous by the day/hour/minute. The EU aren't interested in being pragmatic ; those in-control are too wedded to their dogma and ideology to wish to do so.

However, as much as it pains me to say this it really is now time to call the whole thing off.

IMO, for those that want to see a brexit of sort, the best course of action is to go back into the fold and just be as difficult as possible, use our veto effectively, and let the other crises take their effect. I feel that we do need to be in somesort of common market with our european neighbours, and that naturally needs alignment and regulation, but it does not need the behemoth that the EU is with a desire for 'ever closer union'.

I await the pelters from both sides!

A perfectly reasonable assessment.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Boris will do well to keep his head down. As Brussels makes ever greater demands to water down May's watered down Brexit, she's going to shed ministers one by one. She's holed below the waterline, Boris the next pm and a tough Brexit.

 

[sb_73]

Boris will do well to keep his head down. As Brussels makes ever greater demands to water down May's watered down Brexit, she's going to shed ministers one by one. She's holed below the waterline, Boris the next pm and a tough Brexit.

3 months for a Tory leadership campaign. Final agreement on deal with EU scheduled for October. So either May drives through whatever she can get from the EU and we agree to it, whoever the Tory leader is, or she stops trying and we have an inevitable no deal. The new Tory leader, if she doesn’t win, really has little influence. If Boris was serious he should have done this months ago.

Still loving being the plaything of Tory disunity. And no, I don’t think it would be any better under Labour.

 

[Stroller]

Boris will do well to keep his head down. As Brussels makes ever greater demands to water down May's watered down Brexit, she's going to shed ministers one by one. She's holed below the waterline, Boris the next pm and a tough Brexit.

I don't believe there's majority support in the Tory party for a hard Brexit. Nor is there in Parliament overall, or in the country as a whole.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

Boris will do well to keep his head down. As Brussels makes ever greater demands to water down May's watered down Brexit, she's going to shed ministers one by one. She's holed below the waterline, Boris the next pm and a tough Brexit.

Heaven help us all. He's more obsessed about Putin than he is about Brexit and we're just as likely to go to war as we are to leave the EU with any sort of deal.